Tuesday, 28 June 2011

NI Life and Times survey - 52% of Catholics want to stay in UK

One of the central arguments for a united Ireland used to be demographics.  The idea was that the supposed higher fertility rate of Catholics, in comparison to Protestants, in Northern Ireland would lead inexorably to an eventual Catholic majority and, QED, a united Ireland.  Sounds terribly stereotypical, doesn't it?  

Crude breeding prejudices aside,  a Life and Times survey - carried out between October and December last year using a sample of 1,205 interviewees - found that only 33% of Catholics want a united Ireland, with 52% wanting to stay in the UK.   Nine out of 10 Protestants wanted to keep the union with Britain.  Overall, 73% of all those surveyed, irrespective of religion, wanted the status quo to remain.

In the same survey back in 1998, the year of the Belfast Agreement, only 19% of Catholics were in favour of staying in the UK, with 49% wanting a united Ireland.  That's some shift in only 13 years, and shows how much the peace dividend has paid off in that time... despite the best efforts of lumpens on both sides to turn the clock back to the days of the Troubles.  

It also makes you wonder if many of the respondents who would have considered themselves nationalist 13 years ago have been looking at the shenanigans taking place down here, during and after, the Celtic Cod years?

How many are now contemplating the economic hardship ordinary Irish citizens will have to endure for their entire lives - all thanks to stupidity, cronyism and bad government?  Maybe they have concluded that the 90-year independence experiment has been an abject failure? 

They are lucky.  It is hard to see things changing for the better any time soon down here - at  least those Northerners can be thankful they are not part of it.    

I think the demographic number crunchers might have some wait yet. 

Life and Times Survey, 2010

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Dakota said...

Well we can rest assured that 52% of Catholics in NI are sensible. They have the luxury of seeing the facts for what they are and not through a pseudo nationalist agenda, which is nothing more than mind control by a series of smug elites.
The founding intentions may have been benign (albeit thoroughly misguided) but the last 90 years will only serve to educate individuals in the future in how not to run a country.

The Gombeen Man said...

Sure weren't they kow-towing to the Church for years, Dakota, and packing their daughters off to the Magdalene Laundries? Our Irish elite have them well trained... always have. Just mention "Cromwell" or "800 years" and they'll forget everything else.

And what about that example of the Irish elite Healy-Rae and the crappy RTE show? It's like something from Father Ted but not in the slightest bit funny.

I was wondering... the Shinners were calling for a referendum on the issue of NI remaining part of the UK, in response to the above survey.

I assume they would want an all-Ireland one? If such an event were to occur it would be interesting to see the outcome if we (in the south) were given the option of rejoining the UK... Instant united Ireland, eh? In the current climate you would never know. In the end I think the Healy-Raes and their ilk would win the day, though. Yahoo!!!

Yahoo being the appropriate term.

Dicky Moore said...

I moved back to Ireland last year after 15 years living abroad including 8 years in the UK. I had personal and family reasons for returning but am now sure that it was the worst move I ever made.

I can hardly believe the corruption, greed and selfishness of the Irish people, from top to bottom. The average Irishman only cares about himself and the gombeen politicians with their corrupt mates are canny enough to exploit that to the fullest.

Public servants know they are overpaid and underworked but they won't consider cuts or changes to work practices;

Builders spent a decade building sub-standard shoe-box sized houses to sell at huge profits;

Greedy bankers threw money at consumers to buy the over-priced houses along with a nice new car for the driveway and a few grand for that fitted kitchen and a little holiday overseas;

Young women view pregnancy as a way of getting to leave home and avail of myriad social welfare payments without ever having to contemplate working for a living;

Publicans continue to charge ridiculous prices for food & drink and look for the govt to restrict the supermarkets loss-leader alcohol sales;

Union leaders who walked hand-in-hand with Fianna FAIL through the whole Celtic Tiger shambles (conveniently benchmarking their own salaries to public sector rates) now threaten us with general strikes if their members suffer;

We have loads of motorways (glorified dual-carriageways without services) but have to pay tolls. Take any exit road and you're back on the pot-hole strewn secondary road network which won't be repaired any time soon;

Every second school building I see is a prefab;

My payslip lists a 'Universal Social Charge' to bail out the idiot bankers;

The time is coming for me to get the hell out of this corrupt little gombeen republic. Maybe I'll move to Northern Ireland. One more vote for remaining part of the UK.............

Anonymous said...

Time for the south to vote http://dup.ie !

The Gombeen Man said...

@DM. Don't I know the feeling... lived abroad for best part of 12 years myself - came back in '97 just as the madness was getting into swing. That's the thing... the only thing that stops a lot of people getting right back out is family/friendships ties. The place itself is a kip, there's no two ways about it.

@ Anon. Thanks for that... brilliant.

Sensible Atheist said...

"Well we can rest assured that 52% of Catholics in NI are sensible"

I wouldnt go that far Dakota

Theyre still Catholics after all........

Dakota said...

GM three little words....it's a BOG.

The Gombeen Man said...

@ SA. Ha ha. Let's keep it interdenominational though, and include all intolerant "believers" regardless of franchise! ;-)

@ It's a bog alright D... in every sense. BOG though - I take it you've some initials in mind?

BTW, nice to see a few comments on this one. You lot had become awful shy! Gombeen Nation back to its core values, folks!

Dakota said...

GM no acronyms on this one, it really is a Bog. Initials? Where would you start? Scratch the surface, it's a free for all. NOTHING HAS CHANGED, the mentality which existed during the celtic crap days, is still alive and well. Didn't need the the latest farce in the "Dail" to be reminded of that...THIS cough in your face yob infested bog hole, is incapable of learning from its mistakes. The people get the type of representatives they deserve. It is what it was always and won't change. If anything the Celtic Dimwit years have propelled stupidity into a different orbit, whereby the yob is respected to the detriment of normal members of the human species. It really is the netherworld.

You see GM it all comes down to TRUST. AT EVERY STRATUM, it's gone....Although something the Irish always had issues with, this once indangered, illusive component of human discourse, in reality, has upped sticks and got out. It does not exist to any large extent in the Rep of Ireland. For the uninitiated, anyone who won't admit that, has either a vested interest or is still clinging to the pap they were told at school.
As you say GM it's a kip of epic proportions...The only difference being in any normal kip, there is still the vestige of better times. A poor mans Albania.

The Gombeen Man said...

"Cough in your face, yob-infested bog-hole..." Love it. Couldn't have said it better myself ;-)

Anonymous said...

NI Catholics might have seen the light, but we don't have the sense to vote for a return to GB. It's a failure of imagination: schools teaching an imaginary past, the media playing along, mouthing that happy tune of proud Gaelic tradition we've got stuck in our heads, while our heads remain stuck in our....

We could not imagine an actual alternative to FF, and voted for the other mass-market franchise. Sick of Coke... I know, let's try Pepsi. As I said, no imagination. Certainly not enough to contemplate, in a rational, disinterested manner, the various pros and cons of rejoining the British Isles.

Not to mention the self destructive impulse to which we seem almost genetically predisposed. Look at the last election: FG were upfront about their total lack of any plan, indeed, any clue, related to stimulating the economy. We turned toward them anyway. A lot of turkeys voting for Christmas.


Dakota said...

@thomas yes, NI Catholics saw the light alright but what light was it? A comforting United Kingdom light and not a FALSE OIrish glimmer in the distance. A United Kingdom light, which has recognised it's mistakes and sustains a dependent population. Not a wrecking light full of false promise and deceptive intent. On that note, you can bet there was a steady flow of NI Catholics forward and back to the South over the years, looks like the 52% have a level of taste and basic common sense.

As for imagination, completely agree but it's only one of a myriad of deficiencies with the Republic of Ireland.

Any population that could vote for FF three times in succession, says all you need to know.

Anonymous said...

Up here in 'Norn Iron' (or The North - if you prefer) it seems, ironically, more stable. Maybe that traslates as 'it's grim, but it's always been grim'.
Norn Iron Girl

The Gombeen Man said...

@ Thomas, Dakota. Yes, imagination is a big failing here. Maybe rote education and a culture of not questioning things is a factor. It's a land of orthodoxies, I think.

@ Norn Iron Girl. Yes, I see your point alright. Mind you, it's never been much fun down here either - unless you can detach yourself from it all and view it as a particularly far-fetched episode of Father Ted.

I'll scream if I hear the phrase "financial irregularities" on the radio again.

But yes, stability is finally restored here too - back to some time in the 80s - after Paddy and Mary finally realised you can't get rich by selling houses to each other for ever-escalating prices.

ANNA said...

I had excellent Totally Free education and health care as a NI native + Free dentistry till age 19-.
NI Was different for Catholics- advantages alright re health and education-BUT disadvantages in job advancement - or in some areas even getting jobs.
All changed, Utterly changed . A terrible beauty, born of 30 yrs of needless misery is born- Peace and Equality ( and one I might say, unlike W B Yeats views, that was Never worth a single drop of Irish blood, North or South…however..)
A good education system and laws against discrimination led to a rising class of Catholic yuppies, from the 80‘s onward. Now many NI Catholics are among the north’s super rich, in fact I read they compose the highest % of the new rich.
But surprisingly there Are advantages to being in ROI : for 3 years I held onto my Dublin job, and bought a house in NI as it was cheaper . I commuted while looking for a job in NI - no suitable one, and I didn’t want to start at the bottom - so back to Dublin full time.
Unions Are stronger here and the UK Labour party never stopped the UK and NI sliding into an economy that can be more part time/ low wage than here- a glaring problem for Cameron .
BUT : there are still advantages- my mother wouldn’t live here with it’s shocking health service : 1 yr ago Louth hospital in Dundalk( 1 of Ireland’s biggest towns) CLOSED, leading to horrific over crowding in Drogheda- shocking stories of 88 yr olds on hard chairs left in their own urine all night.
Also a patient in Carling ford was told ‘ Just use Daisy hill hospital instead’-
It’s in NEWRY , run by the Brits( and is an Excellent local hospital) BUT I thought we’d unshackled ourselves from the Brits - so we could treat our own people well.?
PLEASE click on www’louthhospital.com for the re-open petition. PLEASE - THAT 88 YR OLD COULD BE YOUR MOTHER/ GRANNY
And another Major hospital is threatened with closure- Portlaoise.(!!!)
And Monaghan is Always under threat of closure as well.(!!)
What KIND of country treats hospitals as a little ‘extra’ when all of civilisation see them as essential??
Also- Newry grammar schools are Full of ROI school kids- the education is not totally free to them- but a fraction of what they’d pay down here.
I also was mildly amused when my latest tenants of my abandoned home in Newry, ROI students ,inquired was the water safe to drink!!! The Remotest parts of NI have had safe drinking water for ever it would seem- yet people here don’t question that parts of ROI don’t ( where in the EU would you get it??
Yes I would Love an All Ireland referendum on this issue-
Never mind how many Catholics in NI vote to maintain the union with UK - I‘d love to see how many down here would vote to re-join it!

The Gombeen Man said...

Here's that link:
Save Louth Hospital