Sunday, 4 April 2010

Racist killing of Toyosi Shittabey in Tyrellstown

Today's papers report that the death of Toyosi Shittabey in Tyrellstown may have been motivated by racism.  The fifteen year old, a talented footballer who played for Shelbourne’s youth team, was walking home from the swimming pool in Blanchardstown with friends when they were subjected to racial abuse by two scumbags in the Mount Eustace estate.

According to the reports words were exchanged and Toyosi’s group walked away from the scene, but the abusers, aged 23 and 38, went into their nearby house to fetch a knife and followed the youngsters in their car.   The young lad, known as “Toy”, urged his friends to walk away again but was stabbed in the heart by one of the scumbags.  Paul Barry, originally of Pearse Street, has been charged with manslaughter - which is puzzling in view of the pre-meditated nature of the attack which seems more like murder to me. 

“It was a racist attack.  He was a lovely happy-go-lucky boy”, a neighbour is quoted as saying in today’s Sunday Tribune report, which describes Tyrellstown as a middle-class housing estate with a “sizeable African community”.  The Sindo says the area consists of  200 households which are "50 per cent foreign nationals and 50 per cent Irish".

Referring to Tyrellstown as a middle-class estate is somewhat fanciful.  Indeed, the Garda have expressed  concern about tensions in the area and an official from its  Racial and Intercultural Office is working there.   It is one of many boomtime developments that shot up in the Dublin 15 area with no thought or planning.  Situated somewhere between Mulhuddart and Hollystown it has – in common with many new estates in the area –a large population of New Irish.

This blog has highlighted racist attitudes in Ireland before, both overt and concealed, and unless there are serious efforts made on the part of our rulers to integrate our new arrivals, and educate sections of our indigenous population, there will be serious trouble ahead. 

A prime element of racism and bigotry is ignorance, so it makes sense to address this issue through the medium of education.  And the best form of education is inclusive, secular (or, at least, multi-denominational) and one that integrates.

Educate Together is the only organisation offering such schooling in Ireland at present, but it is currently confined to primary level, to the best of my knowledge.  I understand that the group plans to move into secondary education in the near future.

I have no kids, and have no connection with Educate Together, but by my reckoning this is the way to go.  After all, this is about all our futures - together - and it might just eradicate the insularity, stupidity, ignorance and bigotry that robbed Toyosi of his young life.

Anyone interested in starting a new school group can express their interest here. 

Educate Together Start-up Groups

Gombeen Nation would like to extend sincere sympathy to the family and friends of Toyosi.

PS.  It has been brought to the attention of Gombeen Nation that a Paul Barry was previously charged under Section 2 of the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act (see comments), after a stabbing on Pearse Steet in 2001.  See Race attack on Pearse Street

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158 comments:

Ánna said...

THis is sad and shocking- very surprsingly it is not making bigger headlines.Can anyone think of another African who has been murdered by an Irish native in Ireland? Least of all a child?
Not including violence between couples( usually part of a continuous unhealthy relationship- and often the damaged protaganists do not intend this to end in death- and that includes the unfortunate African beheaded by his Irish girlfrinds daughters, the Scissor sisters- all 4 of those were in a web of drugs and violence).
About 10-12 yrs ago, an English couple ( he was black, she was white)came here for a break. Their 1st or 2nd evening, as they walked on Pearse St, an Irish man stabbed him- someone the English couple hadnt even spoken to- just to show his principled stand on either their mixed relationship, or that they had evidently emigrated here. He lost massive amounts of blood- and the hospitál only Just saved his life.
I don't want to say anything about tragic Irish model Katy French, who died from drugs- but Bertie Ahern sent an Aide de camp to her funeral. Is COnor Lenihan still Minister for Integration- will he( or his successor) be going to this boy's funeral? Has the Department of Integration made any statement at all on this brutal sad death? It makes me ashamed to be Irish

Ella said...

Hi GM, I am at a loss here, why has Paul Barry been charged with manslaughter? Manslaughter is not premediated and murder is premediated.

Toyosi was in the company of 4 male friends and 2 females. One of the females asked Michael and Paul Barry for a light/cigarette, the two men then began to abuse Toyosi and his friends about the colour of their skin. A brief altercation ensued before Toyosi and his mates walked away.

Barry and his brother, Michael, went into their house and got a knife and either/or hurley stick/baseball bat depending on which news one listens to (deliberate act). They then pursued Toyosi in their car, now that is premeditated. I see that Michael has been released on bail to sign on to Irishtown Garda station daily and surrender his passport and travel documents. He has just recently returned from living in Canada.

@ Anna, I agree whilst it's headline news it's not really the story du jour, as it were and it most certainly should be.

Anonymous said...

ii knew toy, :(:(

ee was a very gud dancer ndd footballer ndd e was a ladys man, haa,

race or colour doesn mata, we r all d same no mata wah.

iim gna miss seein toy in skul ndd seein es smile :(:(

rest in perfect peace buddy

:(:(

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Anonymous said...

"Gombeen Nation would like to extend sincere sympathy to the family and friends of Toyosi."

Seconded, and supported by the 'peoples' of the break-away Workers Republic of Liverpool.


Nice 1

Anonymous said...

I read Anna's reference to a dreadful racist attck on Pearse Street in 2001,if you google ""Paul Barry Pearse Street,guess what? A 29 year old Paul Barry of Pearse Street was one of the racist gang who shamed Ireland with their disgusting attack on two (black) englidh visitors.And he's at it again,only this time he's killed a fine talented youngman and somehow thanks to century old laws he is charged with "manslaughter".

The Gombeen Man said...

Thank you all for your comments so far. To Anna for highlighting the Pearse Street attack and to Toyosi's friend. Please extend our sympathies personally, if you can.

Ella, I can't understand why the charge is manslaugher. If that is manslaughter, what consitutes murder? A point illustrated by the most recent comment on the subject. Thank you to the poster for bringing this to our attention.

Indo report on Pearse Street racist attack

saddened irish mother said...

I am totally ashamed to be irish right now , we are know the world over for been friendly kind people and now look what some mindless peice of dirt has done to a young life , toyosi was a lovely young man , no body deserves to have there life taken in any manner but by 2 grown men i still cant believe it , toyosi family are heart broken as any family would be. i urge the irish and non nationl people to come together and try made a change to attitudes we have in our little country . my thought and prayers are with his family and friends which i know he has many , his bebo page had nearly 800 people on it with in hours of been made , time to reflect and moarn the murder of a beautiful young man . R.I.P Toyosi ... Dee xxx

Anonymous said...

I was deeply shocked and saddened by this killing of a poor young man Toyosi Shittabey. How awful for a young man to have his life and dreams ended in this way. My sympathies to his family and friends.

I live in Tyrrelstown. It's not the worst of the new estates in Dublin 15. Until this weekend I have never seen any trouble there. There are the usual problems of any estate but never any racial tension.

You do know that Tyrrelstown actually has an Educate Together primary school? I hope it will also have an Educate Together secondary school soon.

Bola said...

I was Toy's friend,
i can't stop cryinq..
it's too sad..
Racism must STOP...!!
please do somethinq about it!

Anna said...

Two brothers have appeared in court charged in connection with the death of a teenage boy.
Paul Barry, 38, was brought before Dublin District Court charged with manslaughter.' The age shown May be significant- it May be the same man from 2001- if so Irish police are even more god awful than I thought- 1) was he even one of those charged in 2001
2)If he Was- why was he out in less than 9 yrs?
Ireland has become A VERY dangerous place for those who are 'different'- even if you're white, open your mouth, reveal a different accent and this could be you,:17 yr old Italian boy paralysed and in a wheelchair froma än attack on Fairview ( about 10 yrs ago), Norwegian teacher brain damaged from an attack on Benburb St( 2 yrs), appalling murder of TWO Polish men by a Teenage Irish boy (2yrs ago)and the appalling rape and murder Of swiss student Manuelo in Galway 2 yrs ago- scumbag who did that had Killed before( and done time for it)- and was chief suspect in the Rape of a French woman, 5 months before Manuelo.The DNA sample from the 1st rape ( which decisively linked this man with the rape) was finally analysed a few months After he was charged with Manuelos murder; is it Any Wonder
Manuelo's parents are suing the Irish government for negligence?
Land of welcomes, charm, dreamy people! For a long time ( 12 yrs) I have believed that the creation of a violent deprived underclass ( probably with even less chance of improving their lot than their grandparents) would result in these terrible murders and maimings- no longer the charming 'úrban decay'of 'The Commitments'- and yet the Government pretends the problem doesn''t exist. Will Any MInister officially acknowledge this boy's passing? Or say the gardai will crack down harder on violence? Where is the Jutice minister when you need him, Dermot Ahern, a man with Great zeal when it came to trying to save the career of perjurer fellow minister Willie O'Dea? Or who will try to improve the communities from which these people spring? I am sad and disgusted- and Again irish leaders are not representing the Irish people.

sean said...

Four charged with hatred in 'racist attack' on father, son

By Tim Healy

Saturday May 19 2001

FOUR men were charged yesterday with incitement to hatred arising out of an alleged racist attack in Dublin last year.

Two others were also brought with them before Dublin District Court on charges relating to the same alleged incident.

The four charged under Section 2 of the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act are accused of using the word 'nigger' or 'niggers' during an alleged attack on Mr David Richardson (46) and his son Christian (25) at Pearse Street Dublin on June 11 last.

David Richardson received a number of stab wounds and was left in a critical condition in hospital.

The four were: Paul Fitzpatrick (20), a shopfitter, Paul Barry (29), unemployed, David Colclough (29), unemployed, all of Pearse Street and Darren Kenny (31) a pipelayer, Meade Terrace, Dublin.

Fitzpatrick, Barry and Kenny were charged with assault and violent disorder. Colclough had been charged last year with assault causing serious harm to David Richardson and has been in custody on that charge since last September.

The two other men also charged yesterday were: Brian Lee (23), Raheen Park, Ballyfermot and Phillip Uzell (20), Boyne Street, Dublin.

- Tim Healy



same paul???????

Anonymous said...

how shamefull GM irl has revealed a lot about itself in the last 10 yrs the naked greed, corruption, degenerate clergy,degenerate political leadership stupidity, hubris, and ignorance on agrand scale this is the most vile so far disgusting little shithole full of white trash. BH

breadnroses said...

I would put money on it being the same Paul Barry. The same age, the same address (Pearse St) and also a murderous violent racist prone to using the word 'nigger'.
At least I hope we don't have so many violent racists that it could be just a coincidence.

Ponyboy said...

Sad sad sad and so shameful

Anonymous said...

Report in today's Irish Independant : Racism on the rise among teenage pupils.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/racism-on-the-rise-among-teenage-pupils-2125384.html

Anonymous said...

In 2010 - this is where Ireland is at. Wow! So sad that a nation is sitting down pretty and watching while its leaders are leading it astray.

Keep sitting pretty and watching while the nation goes 'bust'.

It could be your child next!

...Wonderer

Anonymous said...

My heart goes out to toyosi and his family.
I hope the 23yo and 38yo brothers get life sentences and rot in jail while suffering humiliation everyday.

There are alot of scumbags in the City who have no appreciation of human life, i have dealt with these scum before and been lucky not to get stabbed.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely despicable crime. This poor child was 15 years old. I feel so sorry for his family. Can someone please explain why this racist loser is not being charged with murder - he indicated plenty of intent (why else would you stab someone?). Ireland is going to have a serious race problem if we don't tackle these issues now, and show that the government values both Nigerian and Irish lives equally, and that racist crimes will NOT be tolerated.

Caoileann

Anonymous said...

I think this is just rediculous because I fear for my own life now!! How could someone be so brutal and stab a young boy in the hearth then twist the knife and laugh?? I think the 2 brothers should be sent down 2 prison and the key should be thrown away... If the IRish legal system do not give a fair justice to the killer alot of people are goiing to speak out and could cause a riot.. A young football star who's life has not even started!! I hope justice will be done.. SOmething should be really done or this will keep hapenin.. Please please hope he gets manslaughter and sent down for a long time.. Deepest to the family and friends and would be sadly missed by alot of people! R.I.P ToyBoy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sarah

Anonymous said...

What is really sick and sad about this situation is that Paul will be out in a very short time and ready to kill another foreign person. the gardai and the Irish law obviously do not care what happens to foreign nationals. If Toy's killing can only result in the manslaughter of Paul and his cohorts, what message are they sending to others like Paul. "IT'S OK TO KILL FOREIGNERS. THE LAW IS ON OUR SIDE". Tension can only settle if the appropriate measure of punishment is upheld. I feel very ANGRY that people such as Paul and his scum friend are aloud to commit these crimes with no remorse and no real conviction by the Irish Law.

Anonymous said...

I looked at your face Toy and tears rolled from my face. I am a foreign mom with a 9 year old son. He loves Ireland, his Irish friends, my home is a home to all. I have a fear that like you he too will face the cruelty for the "excuse" some have, that God created black people for white men to eradicate. Where is the justice.. in all of this, when laws overlook the pain you suffered, when the likes of Paul can live on Irish streets as free men. You came to Ireland with hopes I am sure, to be a free man, a man that can enjoy a ball without looking over your shoulder and fufill all your dreams. I pray for you and your family and all the young people out there... let the light of your life shine through, keep an eye on my son and all the foreign young people who love and feel they belong in Ireland.. Rest In Peace my Boy, for God has seen and knows all. XXXX

Anonymous said...

I am so angry at the slaughter of Toy and distraught at the fact that these slugs of depravity are to be charged with manslaughter rather than pre-meditated murder. Where are we going as a society when we have bred these layabout bastards who have had the benefit of the social welfare system in this country and who will undoubtedly again benefit from the fact that these bottom feeders will serve short sentences if any time at all?

I am originally from the area and thankfully I am gone a long time as I feel I would have to leave now as a result of this outrage. Again the vast majority of people in the area are good and decent and I am so sorry that they will be stigmatised by these dangerous thugs who, unfortunately, will go on to breed another generation of vile creatures paid for by you and me.

Anonymous said...

Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword. The law may favour you now but your death is imminent! You have robbed a family of what they love, you will also be robbed and your life snuffed out so watch out. we are coming for you!
Angry reader.

Anonymous said...

Omg ToyBoy Cant belive Hez Gone Lyk..:(
He Was Wun My BestO Nd Buddy..Buh Now Hez Gone by Sum Rasict ScumBag Ughh Swear DOwn Diiz Country Gone Mad Lyk Wdf Sum1 Cant Even Walk Outta Deir Estate No More..Nd Lyk SeriiOusly Wdf Was Dem Old Retardz Doiin Stabbin Sum 15 Yrz Old lyk..?? Nd Swear Down Dem Barry Fhuckiin Bruvz Shud Go 2 Hell Foolz Killin Ma Besto Lyk iiCan Even Stop Tinkiin How Rasict y'all Can Get Lyk..?

Umm Juhh Wanna Holla 2 All Mii BLACK Bruvz Nd Sis Out Der Y'all Becarefull Ohh Cuz Sum Diiz Ppl Juhh 2 Faced 2 Us Lyk Shett..if Not ToyBoy Wuddin Be Gone Lyk Dat Kmtt

Ha Eny Huz Here All Diz Racist Gotta Stop Lyk Dayumm Am Even Scard 2 Freakiin Go Out Now..:( Umm Eny Huz Dat All Man Cant Sey Much iiT Not Lyk Toy Can Cum Bac 2 Lyf..:(


R.I.P Toy..:( Luv Nd Miss Yhuu Man

xx Yah Besto..;) Xx >>

The Gombeen Man said...

I cannot, for the life of me, understand how this scumbag has not been charged with murder.

I live in Blanchardstown so am not a million miles away from Tyrellstown, and I know that most of the people there are hard-working and decent.

Like many places in Dublin 15 all it takes is a couple of low-life scumbags in a given estate to ruin people's lives.

Reading some of the comments here, I think Mr Barry better hope for a long prison sentence.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the two of them will become statistics by doing the honourable thing........? Not likely however as this would be such an injustice to all those good people who have taken their own lives for reasons of totsl despair and an inner strength in being able to end it all.

Anonymous said...

Why does it give anyone the right to kill someone over their skin colour !! 1 man released on bail and the other under house arrest?? If a black man stabbed a white kid there is no doubt he would be given life time in jail !! R.I.P TOYBOY ... we love you bro. =(

Anonymous said...

Ha Yeh SeriOusly Dat Chap Barry Or Wah Eva Hez Fhuckiin Name is Betta Freakiin Get a Lyf iiN Prison Mehn Or Swear Down All Of Us ToyBoy Frendz Aint Gonna Take it Easy Man..:( Ughh Wdf Is Man Sluaghter Lyk it Freakiin Murder Y'all Dizzy Man Hez Meant 2 Be Charged 4 Murder Lyk..Nd Lyk Diiz Juhh Completly Rasict Lyk Wdf is Wiv Dem Freakiin Abusiin Ma BestO Cuz Our Colour..?? SO WAT IF WE RE BLACK..?? Y'all WHITE INI..?? So it Juhh Freakin Skin We All Humanz Lyk..Ehh if Y'all Waz in Our Country We Wudiin Be Freakin Racit 2 y'all..

The Gombeen Man said...

Yes mate. We are all the same... the colour of our skin does not matter one bit. Racism is the refuge of stupid, ignorant losers.

I've come up against it before when I lived as an Irish person in London years ago and racist attacks were commonplace, directed as they were by the BNP and C18. I was in Anti Fascist Action London (great people) and witnessed a couple of these fascists being on the receiving end of some meaningful debates.

The main thing is not to let these scumbag low-life racists drive a wedge through our communities. That is what they want. Remember, they are our common enemy.

Anonymous said...

may your gentle soul rest in perfect peace amen....................and may ur killers never get peace until justice is serve amen...................

Anna said...

This poor boy sounded a fountain of joy and energy- and luminous personalities like these carry on inspiring their grieving families, every day after, it's all I can say in deep sympathy;
But THis is also a disgusting Murder and should be charged as such...if it is not charged as such, then Irish Justice is an accomplice in a disgusting racist crime.Are our police so terrified of our violent underclass that they think there will be riots if 2 are properly charged with murder? Or why Are we showing sympathy for the devils? There are precedents here; the man who killed Manuelo had been in an unprovoked mob attack on a man In Eyre Sq, 10 yrs before- again the charge was manslaughter , not murder.Also thugs beat a man to death in Fairview Pk around 15 yrs ago, thinking, wrongly he was gay.A manslaughter vedict, with suspended sentences, was recorded, leading to uproar, with claims the judge wasnt as concerend about gay-bashing. One of the Fairview mob, went on to violent burglary- and gang rape of a mother in front of her children- the judge who sentenced him- to finally go to jail said he was a very dangerous man.A young Nigerian child has been Murdered- by two of a home grown and Inreasingly mob of Irish monsters- where is our sense of outrage? or that of Dermot Ahern, Justice Minister or Brian Cowan?
There is Too Little outrage here.

Anonymous said...

Let us all, no matter who you are, stand and act against racism!let's listen to our conscience and be responsible.For the life we save,maybe our own.God created this world for everyone to dwell.Black or white,we all have one life. A life to enjoy,to show love to all mankind. Why on earth do we think we're here in this world for. To love and to serve!
My friends,let's all fight for what is righteous.Help make this sad experience be the last.In God's name...so be it!

Anonymous said...

dem scumbags better rot in hell and i mean it, toy was my lil man he was such a good boy he was like a lil bro to me, he meant the world to all of us and now our world has been takin, we aint goin down without a fight! is being black such a sin dat we have to die beacuse of it.. toy never even did anythin to deserve that.. ur man paul or wateva knew wat he was duin and did mean to kill my man cause if u lot even knew exactly how it was and how he did it and had de courage to laugh after takin de knife out you would call it FUCKIN MURDER not manslaughter RACIST BASTARDS GON PAY! R.I.P TOY WE GON FIGHT TO THE FINISH FOR YOU....

Anonymous said...

R.I.P Toyosi

Anonymous said...

Very sad news. My sympathies go to the family. May he rest in peace.

Dakota

Anonymous said...

mann, this is still pissinq me off.
'cause if y'all camee to our countryy yeah
we wouldn't be actinq likee this at all
this fuckinq racism that people be qoinq on about is everywhree and beforee teh irish qovernment could see this, they had to kill out matee Toyy...
Toyy's death is siqnificant in all the black peoplee in ireland's lives..
not onlyy irish peoplee are racist when i walk down the road polish peoplee'll qivee me looks and shout words of abusee..
and when i was on the bus wiv ma mates a bunch of irish kid turned around and said yo
africa's that wayy, that madee me so MAD..
we knew they hated us but don't mean you qo killinq us now,
when y'all went to americaa and shit we aint complaininq...
and when all whitee peoplee madee us slaves, we forqave them, but still you qo and kill Martin Luther Kinq..
but we still forqivinq as it is..
THIS COUNTRY IS FUCKED UP MEHNN..
KMT

Anna said...

'Minister shocked at fatal stabbing of teen
The Minister for Integration Mary White has said she is shocked and saddened at the death of the 15 year old boy in Tyrellstown in Dublin.' I think this was on Newstalk ..
I have not found anything to expresss similar sentiments on Dept Justice website, or heard it from Justice Minister Dermot Ahern ( DA ws very quick to describe attempts by the oppostion to -rightly- remove Willie O'Dea, as 'Despicable'.Maybe he just can't find Suitable words now? neither evidently did the Taoiseach.

The Gombeen Man said...

Yes, Anna. A lot of silence from officialdom here. I think the Paul Barry scumbag is up in court for the hearing today. Let's hear what happens.

Anonymous said...

I am am Irish and currently living in Tyrellstown. I have never witnessed any problems and the estate is normally quiet with decent planning unlike the description above(there are shops and parks and schools), so it's completely shocking that this has happened under our nose. I really hope that we get our community centre soon and that we the residents club together no matter what race or origin we are, to stamp out this sort of hatred and behaviour. There should be zero tollerance towards scumbags like these. I hope they get life in prison so that they can never harm another individual again. Scumbags like these pick on anybody different, be they Irish, Polish, Nigerian or anything that stands out. My thoughts are with poor Toyosi's family and friends right now, may he rest in peace.

Anonymous said...

While murder is a horrible thing, accusations that the Irish government is silent on the murder and a manslaughter charge was brought because they don't care about black people is dangerous. There's been plenty of murderers only charged with manslaughter for some unknown reasons and I don't expect the government to make a statement about every single murder that occurs in the country. Our justice system is a joke for everybody.

-INUP-

breadnroses said...

Paul Barry was in court again today, and he still has not been charged with murder. He has also been granted bail conditions.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0406/breaking43.html
This is absolutely disgusting. The state is in danger of sending a message that racist murder is not 'really' murder. If he is not convicted of MURDER and sent down for a decent length of time then there SHOULD be race riots. I know I'll be out.

Anonymous said...

He will get manslaughter, I say anything between 6-8 years with some suspended, Black, White, Yellow, Red does'nt matter what color you are, The justice system in this country is a joke, it wont change. My sympathies go to the family. May he rest in peace. its a wrong place, wrong time to me, wont be the first, or last to be killed on the street of Dublin....

Anonymous said...

Unless breadnroses above knows more about the case than the courts they should be very careful. Plenty of what appeared to be murders have only been treated as manslaughter, regardless of race. Get pass the colour of people's skin when dealing with crime. Murder and manslaugther rulings apply to this case as they do any other. Advocating violence helps nobody.

-INUP-

Anonymous said...

The individual who is slating the gardai in relation to the first attack obviously believes the Gardai actually imposed the sentence. Its probably best stupid people refrain from making stupid comments.

Anonymous said...

i cannot understand why the police or the court wil treat this as manslaghter.it is the law that encourages this kind of evil for as long as the law is fexible these kind of crime wil continue.if people gets life sentence for killing without it been in self defence i think the crime rate will reduce.if it was a black man who killed an irish man am sure this would ve been treated more seriouly.those guys should rote in jail for they evi and lowlifes cos am sure if they are let lose they wil commit serious crimes.my sympathies to the Toy's family.RIP Toy.

Anonymous said...

What a shameful time for Ireland. I am Irish and day by day becomming more and more ashamed of my Country and my Countrymen. We seem to have lost all humanity and respect for each other. On behalf of all of us who have no real say, no real influence I want to say Sorry Sorry Sorry to Toyosi Shittabey's family, friends and anyone affected by this sensless loss.

Anonymous said...

People need to remember that plenty of irish are murdered by other irish people practically every second week. Also someone cannot be charged with murder without directions from the D.P.P they can only be charged with manslaughter which can be struck out and they can be charged with murder at a later stage.. Procedures must be followed. People also forget that Gardaí arrested three people very soon after the event, this is unusually fast!.. The media frenzy will create a race issue and riots as others posted! If anything more is being done in this investigation because the deceased is not originally from here.. People need to get off the band wagon and get real.. My sympathies with the family. We need perspective people!!

The Gombeen Man said...

Anon said: "Also someone cannot be charged with murder without directions from the D.P.P they can only be charged with manslaughter which can be struck out and they can be charged with murder at a later stage..."

Hadn't known that, Anon. How late can the charge be changed then, if that's the case? He was charged with manslaughter today at Clover HIll. Are you saying he could yet be convicted of murder?

I didn't have the privilege of knowing Toy - unlike many of the posters here - but I can see why people are livid about a 38 year old scumbag (seemingly with form) racially abusing a 15 year old boy, before going after the lad(by car!)and stabbing him to death.

I can see where a lot of this justifiable anger is coming from.

Thanks for the info.

Anonymous said...

I didnt realli know Toy but from wat ppl tell me i could tell he was a nice person he had a future onlike that idiot Paul or wat ever retared name his called.Toy was loved by lotz of ppl and he will never be forgoting.

And as for that idiot i hope he dies in jail and he should be charged for murder.

Anonymous said...

The very idea that this is being considered as manslaughter is an indictment of our criminal justice system.
Dermot Ahern should be ashamed of himself- arsing around with blasphemy laws instead of reforming the murder/manslaughter/accidental killing set-up.
Paul

Ánna said...

''The individual who is slating the gardai in relation to the first attack obviously believes the Gardai actually imposed the sentence. Its probably best stupid people refrain from making stupid comments''.- this maybe is directed at me and WHY? it lowers the tone of a blog with genuine sentiments towards a grieving family- &it lowers the tone of what the Anon writer wanted to say- which is Totally unclear: Yes I used to have more faith in the Garda, but continuing attacks by the same vicious persons make me wonder what is going on;If Mr Barry really was involved in an attack on Pearse St then I wonder about the quality of information gathering and evidence that allowed him to go free in a few years- if he did actually get a custodial sentence. The Garda make out the initial charge sheet,I studied law and also did jury service, I m well aware of who imposes the sentence.
I already said Manuelo Reido may be alive if Garda had moved fast on a DNA test on another girl who had been raped 5 months before her- it was finally analysed 2 months after she died,
However its not exactly Garda who are at fault- but a Bad and underfunded system: in the case I mentioned here, you'd think vital DNA would be analysed Overnight; evidently no money for labs, there's no money for enough Garda patrols, Dublin bus drivers won't go to some areas in case they are stoned- and what I have found Totally alarming for 12 years is the Goverment doesn''t see that creating deprived areas, with a Big underclass is a fertile place for violent criminals to incubate. Other countires would tackle the source with More garda patrols, more funding for early school leavers, more community centres, more schemes to get people retrained etc...maybe things will get better in these areas With No intervention, but will it? More Money needs to be spent on the worst areas - not less.

The Gombeen Man said...

Sorry Anna, I've had so many comments coming in on this one, that I've had little time to check them all. Hadn't copped that one.

I think people bandying words like "stupid" about says more about them than the posters they are firing insults at.

As far as I know, the Garda take the intitial decision to prosecute and pursue charges. This guy was charged with incitement and assault in the 2001 racist attack (one of his accomplices did the stabbing), but I have been unable to find out what happened to him in court.

The points you have made are perfectly valid ones and informative ones. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

I knew toyosi from school and he was a lovely bloke. He was kind funny and in know of noone who disliked him in any way

r.i.p. Toyosi :(

Anonymous said...

I am shocked at how people take an incident like this and turn it into an excuse to belittle their own.
It truly is tragic what happened to Toyosi - I'm from Tyrrelstown and live within two minutes of where this took place but what is most shocking of all is the amount of hatred - yes HATRED - being directed at the people of Tyrrelstown. The majority of posts here are saying how people are in fear of their lives and how this racist community is full of scumbags!?! Even the opening article states "referring to Tyrrelstown as a middle class estate is somewhat fanciful" How dare you - it's simple mindedness like this that perpetuates racial tension. There are many, MANY good IRISH families that live in this estate - middle class families with middle class incomes and middle class jobs who are NOT racist and THEY are under attack by their OWN people - and WHY? because some scumbag from PEARSE STREET - Not Mount Eustace - killed a young boy?
WHY should all of the good people of Tyrrelstown be branded RACIST when this crime was committed by some one from the City Centre? Shouldn't we just say people from PEARSE STREET are racist scumbags instead?

It truly is a tragic incident but the biggest tragedy is that the majority of people are using this as a way to vent their anger against good people who are actually working to SUPPORT the family of this boy.

Shame on ALL OF YOU - you know who you are!!

ATR, Tyrrelstown

The Gombeen Man said...

Oh calm down, will ya. Nobody is saying what you are accusing them of. They are simply angry at the racist killing of a kid. They not saying racism is particular to Tyrrelstown. It's all over the shop.

As far as the "middle class estate" thing goes, calm down. Tyrrestown is no more middle-class than where I live, Blanchardstown.

Let's stay with the real issues, eh, and work to eradicate racism.

Ella said...

@anon 10h54, wouldn't it be easier if people just gave themselves a name? Anyway.. I live in Clonsilla, not far from Tyrellstown and neither neighbourhoods are "middle class". This posting is about a racist killing, end of. I often go to Tyrellstown shopping, visiting friends, I know the area. I don't think anybody is branding residents of Tyrellstown as being racist certainly I don't know anybody there who is. I suggest you reread the post again, if that's your interpretation.

@anon 13h02. I'd be interested to see where this was reported. I've not read this anywhere, heard it from anybody. if you are going to state these "facts" at least back them up. Otherwise I, like most reasonable people will just dismiss them as the garbage they are.

@Conor. What an awful experience.

Toyosi, RIP.

The Gombeen Man said...

Just what I was thinking, Ella.

Note. Some comments have been removed. Please use a name or pseudonym with comments (one pseudonym per individual preferably).

Anonymous said...

I think it is disgraceful dat Toy was killed. Toy was a lovely lad who only wanted the best 4 everyone! & now his family and friends must suffer because of da racism of 2 scumbags!
I hate the fact that it took the killing of a beautiful lad 4 people 2 c how bad racism is becoming in dublin!
It is utterly stupid that they didn't get charged of murder! They took away the life of a very promising teenager who had a lot 2 live 4!
Toy was da eldest of 6 children who now must miss him terribly and it is so hard on his mam, as it would b 4 every parent 2 lose a child!
He shouldn't have been killed there is no difference between people! it is not about what colour skin u have or were u are from it is about what is inside!
And what happened on Friday the 2-4-2010 was a sin!!
It ended the life of a young lad!
I hope people show support 4 Toy and his family and realise what a hard time it is 4 them!
As 2pac said "it ain't about black r white because we're all human"
from Toy's Mate Laura wo will neva get 2 c him again:(

Dave said...

You do not publish comments that you do not agree with. you are no better than a communist state.

Anonymous said...

You are an enemy of Ireland. The IRA will hunt you down you filthy little traitor.

Tomi said...

So sad....:-( R.I.P Toyosi... It could have happened to anyone...I mean anyone....

The Gombeen Man said...

@ Dave. I do not publish multiple provocative racist comments on this thread. Don't you have a BNP meeting to go to?

@ Anon. I'll watch out so. Don't forget your balaclava.

@ Tomi. Agreed.

Anna said...

"Don't you have a BNP meeting to go to?"...
...I quite like this

Anonymous said...

@anon10.54

you're a bit ingnorant if you don't see what
we're all talking about here,
we're talking about how racism is becoming
worse EVERYWHERE in Ireland, not just Tyrellstown. We didn't call ALL IRISH racist, a majority aren't but their shouldn't be any at all. How would you know what anyone is thinking?
'Some' Irish if they see a foreign person they'd be mad inside but they wouldn't carry out any abuse because they know better, it's still racist. Every single person in your family could be racist and it wouldn't show.Racism could also be vice versa not all foreign people are happy with whites. and for all racist people out there everybody is related to a balck person because African People were the first on the surface of the earth, which just makes Adam and Eve black. This theory sprouts a lot of queries?

We might never know?

Written by 13year old, Toy's mate!

The Gombeen Man said...

Thanks, Toys mate.

@John O'N. I only know what I have read about this case. I cannot publish any versions of events that are out of the public domain without them being backed up by facts.

Also, I have had multiple comments, under different names, as well as gratuitously racist and ignorant comments. I don't publish these either. I think this is reasonable.

Anonymous said...

@Gombeen Man

I don't think the comment by Anon at 7 April 2010 17:07 was directed at you, but at the racist.

Anonymous said...

If theres one thing other than partitionism that annoy's me it's racism, both ignorant concepts with discusting consequence's. RIP to this young lad may the ignorance that killed him die aswell.

Anonymous said...

I just can't stop crying over this. I swear the first time i met this boy i could not help but see his beautiful beautiful aura; he was truly surrounded by a good spirit and im not saying this just in memory of his life.

His priceless smile would illuminate your day, and he was the most sincere smile i had ever seen. Toy was my younger brothers's friend. I haven't felt sad like this in so long, not even when I lost a family member recently. Curiously I only met him few times. That's how precious he was!

As for those scumbags who are being let loose by the very hypocrite Irish legal system, remember that there's different kind of justice. The beloved Toy has brothers and friends who will fight for him. YOU WILL HAVE TO KILL ALL OF THEM BEFORE YOU LIVE IN PEACE. Prison is safest place you should be.

Anonymous said...

Regardless of the course of events, I would never want to spur racial hatred among people, that's the devil's tool! That would be useless, senseless and would trap us in a vicious circle.

RACISM MUST STOP. FOR THE MEMORY OF ALL RACIALLY RELATED CRIMES. RIP TOY, what a specially human being u were. I just cant get over your priceless smile and bubbling energy leaving Earth. You've left an army of people who will never forget you. Nervertheless, hopefully this incident helps make the world safer so that you didn't died in vain.

WE LOVE YOU, May our Lord's divine love sooth your soul and give u rest. God bless Ireland. Lets all learn and grow from this. Peace and love

Anonymous said...

I think we suld abolish the word racism and use the word 'ignorance' in its place. Then some people might understand certain comments better.
David.

Anonymous said...

@ David
Ignorance expressed through hatred/violence/prejudice of other human beings because of their racial background/skin colour is called RACISM. FACT.

Replacing by other words doesn't matter. The sooner you face that, the sooner you start tackling the points made in the comments :)

Anonymous said...

Being convited previousely for crimes very similar to the tragedy that took my friend Toy*
weapon pre-arranged in car (2) and persuance following the lads with intempt how can these two men not be prosecuted to the full extent of the irish law it is insane to think you can take a life and pay 6,ooo to walk the streets....

if these men arent hit with murder in court
i can say with a strong mind,re-assurance

(Blake)



I PREDICT A RIOT*

rip toy*

Anonymous said...

=[
this is so sad i dono the fella but hes in my school =[ r.i.p

Anonymous said...

Totally shocked by this and offer my sympathies to all concerned.
Tragic does not even begin to describe it.

I believe the people involved ( in the killing) were scumbags first & foremost , however , not all the circumstances are known/ or in the public domain & i believe we should hold fire discussing this.
The truth will always out.

To suggest that the victim was randomly picked on because of the color of his skin it is a very serious charge, without independent witnesses or previous intelligence of racist allegiances it will be hard to prove.

But it is worth noting that the gardai recommended that the judge refuse bail & spoke of a "weight if evidence" against the alleged killer.

On another point please lets get a grip here,
To listen to Some Commentators in the last few days you would think that Criminality is a trait exclusive to white people,there have been plenty of crimes carried out by Foreign nationals in Ireland ,to my knowledge Nobody has ever suggested they were racially motivated.

We tread a dangerous path if we start to put the idea about that n Irish person acting against someone of a different race is automatically "racist".
Even racist language used in anger does still not necessarily make a person a "racist" however disgusting that language may be.
Those of us who have lived through racism know only too well that the worst is yet to come.Real Race hatred has NOT yet reared its ugly head in Ireland.We can stop it but it works 2 ways.Tolerance by its very nature is about Give & take.

To put this in perspective I recently was verbally attacked by a couple of drunk idiots on my way home from town.I tried to ignore them but eventually told them to shut up, one of them punched me & called me a "fat C*NT"- at no point during or after this unprovoked attack did i think that they picked on me because of my weight.unfortunately the ME ME ME attitude of recent years permeates through all society and manifests itself like this amongst some horrible people.

A Child has been needlessly killed - tragedy.
Let us pray for him & for Justice

no revenge

Increase the peace.

Akeem

moira tierney said...

heartfelt sympathy to toyosi's family; disgusted that this could happen; sincerely hope the courts hand down the serious conviction merited; lost for words to describe the pathological mentality responsible - i think we're all responsible for cracking down on all and any racist behaviour, of any sort, that we encounter, on a daily basis - all children of the nation equally ...

The Gombeen Man said...

Thanks for your comments, at least the genuine ones. I have had some of the same people commenting under different guises over and over again, sometimes with contrary viewpoints. Hopefully, most of these didn't get through the moderation process. Nor did the redneck racist ones from the banjo boys.

For the record, I am not naive. I lived in the East End of London for many years (as an immigrant Irish person) in the heyday of the BNP and C18, who carried out attacks on Irish people. That's why I joined Anti Fascist Action (London). Respect!!! See

Brief History of AFA in Britain"

I worked in a print house. I do not think for one minute that ignorance, racism and bigotry is the exclusive preserve of either white, black, brown or otherwise people. It is something we all have to eradicate - together.

We have to integrate and communicate with each other, and we have to accentuate our commonality rather than our differences. I am against white on black / black on white racism, I am against "Catholic" v "Protestant" sectarianism, I am against Tutsi v Hutu tribal violence. I am against Hindu v Muslim bigotry. Hopefully that clears that up for some people.

Finally, this particular blog - and its contention that this was a racist attack - is based on reports from the Sunday Tribune, The Sunday Times and the Sunday Independent. The Tribune one is the most detailed and interviews locals near the scene of the attack.

If other people claim to have the inside track, or know more about the shameful killing of this young lad, I suggest that instead of spouting it all over their various internet forums (which are really no better than high-tech gossip generators) that they go to the police with whatever information they have.

Lew said...

Such a sad thing to read about.
It should never have happened.

The only thing I'll add to whats been said, is whether it was a racist attack, or just an attack by someone who was out to get someone, the attack should never have happened at all.
Yes if it was racist it makes it all the worse, but it should never have happened no matter what colour someones skin is.

This person who committed it, if they had done anything similar before should have been locked up for a very long time, and like most, provided the details are as reported cannot see any reason that the charge would be manslaughter rather than murder.


I hope they get locked up for many many years to come.

The last comment is one that may not be popular, but racism must be combatted, ideally in schools but also parents must be taught how wrong it is, and not just Irish children/teens/adults but people of all racists, although most will not admit it exists, racism is common to all races, and I've seen racist comments/abuse/atacks by people other than those of white origin, as well as those with a white origin.

Everyone must learn to live together in peace and harmony, but I fear it will be many years if not centuries before that finally happens.

The Gombeen Man said...

Well for all our sakes, Lew, I hope it's sooner rather than later.

ATR Tyrrelstown. The only knowledge of this event I have came from the broadsheets and other "old media" sources, not the tabs, and not the internet. At least the sources of the "old media" are attributable.

My point is that if people have other information they should report it to the police, and will go through legal process. Another thing to bear in mind, is that a Paul Barry of Pearse street was charged with incitment to hatred and assault with a group who shouted racial abuse a black man passing by in the street. One of his gang stabbed the man and he was lucky not to die. The scumbag who stabbed the man got 7 and a half-years.

So if you are expecting people to give Barry the benefit of the doubt with regard to the racism charge, you will wait a long time. Or maybe he's just unlucky?

In the meantime, if you have info that differs with that in the papers go to the police with it. I am not being facecious, but if there is other info they should be told.

I can't publish "versions" of events from anonymous sources for the reasons given above, and for the same reasons as the Tyrrelstown forum - or, say, the Irish Times. You should appreciate that.

Tim Duffy, Tyrrelstown. said...

GM, you're not letting any sort of balance into your commentary however. Just because something is reported in the broadsheets doesn't mean it has been qualified or even true. Yes some details are being held back at the moment because of sensitivities towards the African community, details which led to a manslaughter charge not a murder charge. Blanking any comments that don't automatically support a racist persective on this is a little childish.

For example, above we can read a post where the poster says the Barry's brought a knife to the scene of the attack in their car. Where was this common knowledge exactly? All that is known is that there was a knife at the scene - not how it got there. So to moderate so selectively is being a little unfair and a litle too personal perhaps?

Maybe it was just an oversight of course.

The Gombeen Man said...

Tim. There were two arrests made at the scene. In my experience, the police are not slow about arresting people they think might have been guilty of any kind of transgression. Witness the bloke who was headbutted in Balbriggan, and ended up getting charged for his pains. Two arrests.

My blog is just that - a blog. I have based it on what I have read in three newpaper reports, and I am more likely to believe what I read in there than what I read on the internet, or from anonymous or pseudonymous comments (many of which are from one person, using different names). I have changed the opening line of the blog to reflect this.

Tim Duffy, Tyrrelstown said...

GM - Paul Barry has never denied killing Toyosi. It's not in doubt. What is in doubt though are the aggravating contributiing circumstances immediately prior to the event which cast huge doubt on the credibility of the African community in Tyrrelstown sadly. The details will out in thir own due course.

Kelly said...

This story is so so sad,

I was guilty of skipping over the story when it first came up on the news, but when I sat down to read about it properly it really struck a cord.

Like some of the other posters, Im baffled as to why he is facing manslaughter charges and not murder. IT WAS MURDER! The scumbag should not have been on the streets in the first place.

My husband is black and my child is mixed race...This stuff scares me...Its hard to believe that while I think I have the most beautiful family in the world, someone else out there would kill them based on the color of their skin.
My heart goes out to that boys mother. She will never ever be the same again.
I truly hope the Irish stand up behind this case and make sure that knacker gets his just desserts.

Make an example of him! Racism is not accetable.

When I first started seeing my now husband, we went ona a date in town. In Temple bar three absolute junkie knackers came up to us, 1 of them roared at the top of his voice 'One in 4 of them c**ts has Aids. I almost fell out of my standing. I was seriously gobsmacked that ppl still behaved in such a vile racist manor. I wouldnt mind if he was an upstanding, well dressed, fully educated member of society with a valid point but he was an absolute moran. He was so enraged seeing a white girl with a black man. It was that whole mentality, there taking our jobs, there taking our women...Grow up!! I was angry at first..then I just felt sorry for them..losers, obviously dragged up!

God bless Toyosi's family.x

Tim Duffy, Tyrrelstown. said...

@ Kelly. Hypothetically speaking (so as not to incur liability on behalf of the blog) - what if:

- A large group of African teenagers including Toyosi Shittabey had robbed a 23yr old Irishman of his phone approximately 7:10 on Good Friday.

- The same group of African teenagers had borne the Barry brothers to ground and inflicted significant personal injuries during the robbery.

- Had fled around the corner from Mount Garrett Tyrrelstown to Mount Eustace Tyrrelstown with a stolen phone.

- Had encounted the Barry brothers slightly later in search of their phone.

- Had refused to return the property and produced a knife to warn the Irishmen off.

- Had wielded the knife directly at the Barry brothers as they attempted to take back their property.

The above comprises neither allegation nor fact, in order to stay the right side of the moderation policy here. But for argument's sake, would your view of the events of Friday April 2nd 2010 be altered in any way if for example the above hypothetical sequence of events had happened?

In no way do I endorse the above as actually having happened.

Ella said...

@ Tim Duffy, Tyrrelstown. It is common knowledge that the Barry brothers brought the knife to the scene of the murder. I quote from the Sunday Tribune.

"Both men (the Barry brothers) then began to abuse Toyosi and his friends about the colour of their skin and called them "niggers" several times, according to a local source. A brief altercation ensued before Toyosi and his friends walked away.

But the two brothers then went into their house and got a knife. Both men had been drinking, according to a garda source. They then got into their car and drove after the teenagers."

I attach the link of the full story and suggest you read it

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2010/apr/04/murdered-just-for-being-black/

Tim Duffy, Tyrrelstown. said...

Ella, on Sunday April 4th there's not a snowballs chance in hell any of the 'facts' in that story could have possibly been known. Like I said earlier, this is not an endorsement of actual events but would your perception of the event be altered in anyway if it were proved that the African youths were transgressors in this sequence of events and that they had brought a knife or a screwdriver to the Mount Eustace estate on Friday night?

Nobody, including the papers, are in possession of 'facts' at this point in time with the exception of the admission of the killing on the part of Paul Barry.

Even now a week later you wouldn't catch a mainstream newspaper repeating the same series of 'facts' as more details have emerged regarding the events of April 2nd. A lot of details taken at face value over the weekend of April 2-4 have now been toned down and called into question.

Let me repeat that what Paul Barry did was disgusting and my hope is that the law prevails and the accused is punished according to this horrible crime.

I'm afraid neither party in all this are angels however and there are serious questions hanging over the friends and peers of this poor dead boy - uncomfortable details that are going to be difficult for these young people to deal with. I wish them God's strength as they find the courage to step forward and reveal exactly what happened that night - even if it makes them look bad - for the sake of the community and the residents of Tyrrelstown so we can move past this.

Damo said...

Its my information from someone in Tyrellstown that Tim is giving the most accurate desciption of the events of that night.Whatever racist words were initially spoken to the African teenagers,it seems to me that a lot of people on here believe that a gang assault is justified even to the point where threats with a deadly weapon are acceptable as long as the victims are whit,irish and perceived as rascist.If Tims story eventually is most accurate and i agree im not 100% sure,there are larger questions as to why none of the other African teenagers have been arrested and charged with assault and theft by the Gardai.Is this a deliberately racist policy of treating the perpetrators and victims of crimes differently on account of their skin colour? Black assailaints are immune from prosecution in case the Gardai are called racist by the usual people?

Anti-racist terrorists said...

FROM NOW AND THEN, NOT ANY PERSON WITH RACIST VIEWS SHOULD FEEL SAFE ANYWHERE. THEY WILL ALL BE TARGETED AND GIVEN A REAL PUNISHMENT. IF VIOLENCE NEEDED IT WILL BE WELCOME. ALL THE MEANS ARE WELCOME. NOT ANY PERSON WHO SYMPATHIZES NAZIS OR RIGHT WING PUPPETS WILL FEEL SAFE. WE HAVE STARTED TO CLEAN UP OUR CITIES FROM THE RACIST THUGS. THIS ACTION MAY LAST FOR A WHILE BUT IT WILL BE EFFECTIVE.

Anonymous said...

Here a renowned Irish Newspaper with a predominantly educated white middle-class readership. Note their generally defensive and aggressive reaction to a blog by African blogger Bryan.
As Former Ireland manager Brian Kerr recently said to the Irish Times: “There is consistent racism in this country despite what people might have you believe.”

Gabe

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2010/04/06/please-help-me-to-understand/

Anonymous said...

Typical :All the Irish kids that have been murdered killed and abused not too much said ,one poor unfortunate foreign kid gets killed and everybody is up in arms.all of a sudden all african and other foreign people are living saints and we should prejudge any trial or the outcome thereof .The very same newspapers (and i use the word news loosly)were only telling us recently that 9 out of every 10 Nigerians had come to the attention of an Garda.Futhermore I have myself witnessed racism on the other hand: when helping a nigerian neighbour with some official forms ,she was offered a council flat around the city centre and told me in no uncertain terms I would not live with such people "these are all uneducated and drug addicts they have no future" .So remember when you all decide to judge there is 3 sides to every story :the accused the accusee and in the middle the truth.No one! foreign or Irish deserves to die and everyone foreign or Irish deserves to have a fair trial so why not wait till the courts do their job before we start lynching or cannonising people .I would like to stress this is not the time to argue policy or racism this is a time for a family to grieve and for garda to do their jobs why not wait and let things take there course before shouting from the hilltops things you may regret at a later stage. In ending I would like to convey condolences to the family of Toyosi,may he rest in peace.liam

Anonymous said...

@ Tim... He is doing what we are so tired of in this country from politicians to bishops to bankers to all strati of society - perpetually trying to defend the indefensible.
But not with actual facts, no, with spurious hypothetical "what if" arguments. That's how the Nazis justified their actions leading up to the holocaust...

Gabe

Gabe said...

@ Tim... He is doing what we are so tired of in this country from politicians to bishops to bankers to all strati of society - perpetually trying to defend the indefensible.
But not with actual facts, no, with spurious hypothetical "what if" arguments. That's how the Nazis justified their actions leading up to the holocaust...

Tim Duffy, Tyrrelstown. said...

Gabe, with sensitivity towards the family of Toyosi Shittabey I prefaced any comment with "what if". We don't know the details, we don't know the motivation, we don't know if a crime was committed prior to Toyosi's death, we don't know if the African community of Tyrrelstown know more than they are disclosing, we don't know a variety of things which the papers claimed as 'facts' a week ago and are now distancing themselves from.

All we know is a teenager is dead. We have zero proof of any racial involvement other than the dead teenager was not a white person. However there are agendas about right now that would like to turn this tragic event into a racist argument and have made serious assumptions that this was/is the case. What has emerged since the weekend of April 2nd would suggest otherwise and I respect the sensitivity being shown to the boy's family regarding not releasing this information just now while the parents are grieving.

This is all we know. Claims of murder, claims of racism, claims of pre-meditated assault are just speculation as befits a community in shock and a community in anger as they are easy claims and labels to produce in times of fear, confusion, and sadness.

I think this case will surprise everyone in the end, and may in fact expose a deeper problem in modern Ireland than the old chestnut of 'racism'.

The Gombeen Man said...

@ Anon 10.02. The reason "everyone is up in arms" is because it is a suspected racist attack on a 15 year-old-kid by a 38 year old man with previous involvement in such an attack 9 years ago. Also, could you back up your claims about "9 in 10 Nigerians coming to the attention of the Garda"? Is it the same scientific source as "9 in 10 cats prefer Whiskas"?

Do you have equivalent research on how many "indigenous" are "known" to the police in Blanchardstown, Clonsilla, Mulhuddart and environs? What is your source?

This guy had no history with the police, and to infer he did is a slur.

@ Gabe. Denial is what the Irish do best. They will look for the most obtuse explanations for something rather than going for the obvious, and deny there are problems rather than deal with them.

Doing the blog has convinced me more than ever that there is more than "low-level" racism out there.

Good article here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0409/1224267967713.html

Tim, on the contrary, the papers are sticking very much to their original line. If it is a racist attack, the sooner the better we all just deal with it. Speaking as a Dublin 15 resident, it's in all our interests.

Tim Duffy, Tyrrelstown. said...

GM, the wider issue here is not so much is this a racist attack or not, it's whether this was an unprovoked attack or one that followed a significant incident that would leave a charge of murder unobtainable and instead a charge of constructive manslaughter which is where we are now. Racism has no bearing on a constructive manslaughter charge hence the legal distance between inserted between the 'facts' as reported by the media and the 'facts' as known by the investigating authorities led by the DPP.

If details emerge that this tragic death was provoked by, for example, a robbery, then skin colour does not enter the equation.

Murder is murder, manslaughter is manslaughter, there is no racist flaviour of those crimes, as racism by its very nature is too subjective and difficult to prove in a court of law. Racist comments at the scene of an attack do not prove ractist motivation, or anything close to it. Uttering a racist comment in heat of recovering from a racially-delivered thumping should not be confused with premediation or malice aforethought as it's also known. Excuse the unfortunate expression but this case is anything but black & white.

Anonymous said...

I see that these comments are moderated, so can we infer that you support the extrajudicial killing of the accused, or did this post just slip through the net?
Paul

Quote:
"...The law may favour you now but your death is imminent! You have robbed a family of what they love, you will also be robbed and your life snuffed out so watch out. we are coming for you!"

http://gombeennation.blogspot.com/2010/04/racist-killing-of-toyosi-shittabey-in.html?showComment=1270498922185#c7790338409869117879

The Gombeen Man said...

You can infer whatever you like - perhaps you should attribute such a statement as the kind of "heat of the moment" parlance that Tim describes above. For the record, I don't agree with all the comments I publish.

Fascists deep in your holes said...

"You do not publish comments that you do not agree with. you are no better than a communist state" 7 April 2010 17:03. Wow, since when the fascists became pro-freedom of speech. Remember remember Pinochet in Chile, remember the right wing Junta in Greece, Remember Cuba, Bolivia, the Nazi Germany, Spain under Franco's regime... YOU HYPOCRITE. When you speak about communism wash your mouth because next time when a nazi army will invade your house and start killing your children you will pray God to have the red army close to you. Or maybe you are a Catholic supremacist Christiano-taliban and you refuse to accept the fact that Ireland has changed and religion is no more a dominant culture so in a few years people like you will have no voice. Sorry but I think we forgot to put you in the museum. I wish you bad luck and to all the racist whatever happened to Toyosi to find it in front of you to your own children. No we, the anarchists, will not support the murderers but will not do anything to save you.

"You are an enemy of Ireland. The IRA will hunt you down you filthy little traitor" 7 April 2010 17:07 If you had a little bit of knowledge you could very easily understand that the IRA was a LEFT WING MARXIST movement. The IRA stood for the rights of all the people and not just only Irish. They had connections with the Red Brigades, the 17N, and other far left city guerilla groups around Europe. It is exactly the opposite of what your stupid little problematic dusty brain thinks or wants to think. Your knowledge abt history is pathetic and outrageous. So as far calling other traitor, I would like to return that statement back to you. You are a traitor cause Irish people are proud to be welcoming. But you want a country dictated by the church that treats other people like dirt. Irish people are the best singers and art lovers of the world but your church had pogromed against musicians at the beginning of the last century. See in England and other European countries at 60s. All the Irish confronted discrimination. In my country all the Irish I know have been treated worse than animals while your poor people were begging for jobs. I am proud to say I fought enough hard for people like you to have a voice and the right to live as the rest of my fellow countrymen. In a beach I saw a few tourists messing around with heavy drinking but the police preferred to arrest only the Irish. Instead of supporting equality like the 90% of the Irish people who live abroad you are talking nonsense. You want a state that exactly anti-Irish so you are the biggest traitor. You will be the first target for IRA.

To all the racists, I am starting to collect signatures to prepare a mass deportations for people like you. We don't want you, nobody likes you and you know it. We will deport you to a country like Iran, Saudi Arabia. There you can find the social system you like. Homosexuality is illegal, the police recruits more people, the foreigners are treated like prisoners... well there are cheap flights but until then you will have voice only in websites like stormfront and some unmoderated youtube channels. Back in your holes, very very deep.

The Gombeen Man said...

That's the place for them alright, mate.

Anonymous said...

@GM - I meant that if an explicit death threat is moderated and deemed ok, then what the hell wouldn't make it through?
Paul

The Gombeen Man said...

Paul, I let the "death threat" through as I saw it purely as an expression of anger from (I assume) friends of the dead youngster. I wouldn't take it too seriously, as I would imagine the last thing real-life assassins do is sit tapping their intentions into a computer keyboard. Worse has happened, after all.

You'd be surprised at some of the stuff I've cut out. There are some rednecks out there, and that's for sure. It's been an education.

Anna said...

‘Apocalyptic vision - The doom merchant whose warnings don't seem so far-fetched anymore’- see below from an article on Morgan Kelley, Economics professor quoted in Irish Times 13/4/2010:
“By 2015 we will have seen what happens when jobs disappear forever . . .Ireland is at the start of an enormous, unplanned social experiment on how rising unemployment affects crime, domestic violence, drug abuse, suicide and a litany of other social pathologies.– December 2009 “
25 yrs ago when I didn’t live here and used to visit, beggars on O’Connell Bridge seemed quaint ‘characters’- you wouldn’t have got it in another major EU city or capital.
Quaint charm is gone, the old beggars were Not violent but Now we have a huge dangerous underclass and often Anyone regardless of skin colour can be targeted. About 11yrs ago a 17 yr old Italian boy was attacked in Fairview with a bottle (he has been in a wheel chair ever since). His Irish attacker said he was nobly saving a bunch of Irish lads who he saw ‘arguing with a big foreign fellow’. In fact the Italian boy was disputing with the Irish bunch- who had just stolen his wallet!
But Our Fairview vigilante didn’t ask too much what the rights and wrongs were- clearly he was Full of anger and violence and Spoiling for a fight -so he started one- and left the Italian boy disabled. Turns out this he had a String of violent offences behind him And so did his sister! People are shocked that young boys in war zones of Africa grow up being forced into being boy soldiers- in the most deprived parts of Irish cities boys are getting god awful violent conditioning as well- and often I don’t Totally blame them, if they turn out bad: Huge fault lies with a Rotten government that has starved respectable working class districts of their own tax money for public services & job creation - all to fatten the rich class.

Anonymous said...

"To all the racists, I am starting to collect signatures to prepare a mass deportations for people like you. We don't want you, nobody likes you and you know it. We will deport you to a country like Iran, Saudi Arabia. There you can find the social system you like. Homosexuality is illegal, the police recruits more people, the foreigners are treated like prisoners... well there are cheap flights but until then you will have voice only in websites like stormfront and some unmoderated youtube channels. Back in your holes, very very deep." - Fascists deep in your holes
You want to deport racists. Won't that include some non-white racists and Muslims and African Christians who are generally are even more "homophobic" than Irish Christians. Most of the Irish population voted for the citizenship referendum making them "racist". Should they be deported.

Wasn't the fist chief of staff of the Provisional IRA a conservative Catholic Sean MacStoifain. It was the Official IRA who were Marxist. It was under the influence of Gerry Adams that the Provisional IRA and Sinn Fein became Marxist. When Ruidhri O'Bradaigh was leader of the Republican movement they were more sympathetic to Pan-Celtic Nationalism than far-left causes. My granduncle was in the Old IRA and he was no communist.

About the Irish abroad. Ever hear of Mary Ann Leneghan from Reading and Ben Kinsella from North London. They were young people of Irish descent and victims of attacks by ethnic minorities. There is a downsside to multiculturism.

It is very dad to hear of the death of Toyosi. May he rest in peace but we should also remember innocent victims like Ben Kinsella and Mary Ann Leneghan.

Freemind

Anonymous said...

"Fascists deeep in your holes" said that the IRA were Marxist. The Official IRA were Marxist not the Provisionals. Gerry Adams moved the Provisional movememt in a left wing direction. When Ruaidri O Bradaigh was in charge they were more sympathetic to Pan-Celtic Nationalism than Leftest causes. What does he think of the majority of Irish who voted yes in the citizenship referendum? Should they all be deported and replaced by immigrants.
Freemind

Gislene O. said...

Mr Duffy I can see that you are in every single blog on the internet trying so hard to convince people about this not being a racist attack that you're actually lacking of all redibility. By the way I also live in Tyrrelstown...just wondering how people can witness
the same event and still have different versions of the same and also I wonder what is it that you're getting from spreading "your version" all over the net...

A young boy was killed by the hands of a grown up man and that is something we cannot change.

May Toyosi rest in peace.



Gislene C. de Oliveira

Fascists deep in your holes said...

@Anonymous
I have several times expressed my disagreement with the Muslim fundamentalist and other religious freaks. They aren't better than the Christiano-talibans if maybe worse in that age. Another good solution is to put all the religious fanatics in a battle, allow them to kill themselves and we finished with them.

"There is a downsside to multiculturism". I am not for multiculturalism but for interculturalism where cultures can interact with eatchother rather than living in certain areas. This can be done by appropriate education. How can a Muslim get rid of his/her religious darkness without education? Who do you expect to do that? The state? Did you notice that the politicians do not give a damn if immigrants are living well or confront discrimination? The state does not care about anyone, Irish or non Irish. It is outrageous but true. Why do we allow the Media poisoning our minds? They subliminally promote xenophobia. They do not tell things as exactly they are, neither you are able to see the real picture of the world. Every struggle is about authority, this is what our leaders want, to divide us. It's the tactic of divide and conquer and victims are everyone, Muslims, Christians, Jews...

"My granduncle was in the Old IRA and he was no communist" but there was still a left wing element. Do not confuse also Marxism with communism, neither communism with the nasty soviet regime.

Second anonimous
"What does he think of the majority of Irish who voted yes in the citizenship referendum? Should they all be deported and replaced by immigrants" In some point it is right not to allow anyone get automatic citizenship as Ireland is a small country but you are not able to identify the reasons of all those who voted against that. If I had the right to vote in something similar I wouldn't vote at all because I don't agree with the idea of a nation at all so neither the yes or the no vote could suit my ideological background. Why an immigrant should get Irish citizenship in order to be treated equal? Is that a signature that will change the public opinion towards this specific person? See the French riots, those who rebelled were all French citizens. So these sort of referendums do not say anything to me. It is like you have a bad tree, you need to cut its root and not the branches. Perhaps you cannot understand that I see things from a different point of view, you can't get me if you don't try to see things in depth. That has nothing to do with hatred, bigotry as in Toyosi case. It is a different issue.


The death of Toyosi is as sad as Ben Kinsella and Mary Ann Leneghan. May the all rest in peace and lets say NEVER AGAIN. No matter what religion, color, ethnicity, nationality. If somebody wants to be fundamentalist I would advice him/her to keep his/her God home otherwise you they know what to do.

jimjay60 said...

An opinion poll in recent months (Irish Times, Nov. 24th) recorded a severe hardening of attitudes towards immigrants in Ireland with the vast majority of people surveyed (72%) indicating that they want to see a reduction in the number of non-Irish immigrants living in the state. Three in ten people want to see “most” of our immigrant population leave, while negative sentiment towards immigrants is strongest amongst the young, with eight out of ten 18 to 24 year olds reporting that they would like to see a reduction in the number of resident immigrants.

Anonymous said...

@jimjay60 who the hell wants to emigrate to Ireland now. Only a badly informed person, or perhaps somebody who lives in a rock does not know that this country cannot offer anything right now.

The same survey says that a percentage about 40% off the Irish want to emigrate. Well, go tell to your people you are simply not welcome at any country. Stay to your great Ireland which is only for the Irish

Ella said...

@jimjay60 - I recall that survey myself and remember being disappointed when I read it, but not entirely surprised.

Why are the Irish so against foreigners coming into Ireland and settling here? It strikes me as double standards, it's quite okay for us to emigrate but nobody is welcome here.

"72 per cent of people want to see a reduction in the number of immigrants living here."

"40 per cent of those in the 18-24 age group say they are likely to emigrate."

- these figures just don't add up unless you are anti-foreigner, which it appears, embarrassingly that a lot of my fellow country men are.

The boom which began in the 1990s is the first one I can remember in my lifetime (nearly 45). Before the boom Irish people emigrated, as I did myself. Generations before me emigrated too and in general we were welcome wherever we went. Paddy and Mary should be mindful of that.

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/outsidein/2009/11/

Anonymous said...

he was in the same school as me we were friends and he was so funny and he always had a smile on his face his brother is just like him. the school has a pictuir of him in the entrence and threr is 4 candles around it and there is a book beside it and yo can put messages in it everyone one loved him he had a great life in front of him but then them fucking scumbags took you away from us just because of his skin couler and the basterd fucking laugh when he stabbed him. i hope them scumbags rote in prision because if they get out they will wish they haddent because all his friends will be after them
R.I.P toy missind you loads everyone is xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Patrick Staunton said...

I'll never accept these people as "New Irish" or anything but visitors here under sufferage. The public were not consulted on the matter, a huge mistake since its the public who will have to suffer the consequences. I know plenty who will not suffer it gladly.

The FF policy was short term gombeenism at its very worst with the legal profession and the usual liberal nimbys cheering it on. A disgrace that it was allowed to occur given that the warning signs are all over europe, not to mention UK. Now the pot is running dry these same liberals tell us they can fix the problem THEY created. Bullshit.

The Gombeen Man said...

You'll never "accept" them, will you not? Well that's your problem, because they are here to stay.

As for not having a say, you can be sure that the indigenous citizens of the many countries to which the Irish have emigrated to didn't have a say either.

Anonymous said...

Patrick's comment reflects the 80% of the Irish society, full of stereotypes and small town syndrome. I bet people like him never traveled abroad. Nevermind we will never accept the Irish immigrants either. We would rather add people from other countries with better education background who at least know to appreciate more than the Irish hypocrites.

I really wonder why the Irish are moaning so much about immigration. They were the first immigrants in the UK and the largest immigrant population in US, Australia, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden. We should all let them die in their island. And of course I will do everything possible to treat as bad as I can every Irish person that I see in my country. I will tell them to stop stealing jobs and go back to your country which is only for the Irish.

"these same liberals tell us they can fix the problem"... stupidity and ignorance together but who cares, it is a small insignificant country, just like nothing.

The Gombeen Man said...

Well, Anon, it's probably fortuitous that Ireland is back to its rightful place as an economic basket case - Just as it was in the 80s when I had to get on the boat to England to find work. Been back here in Ireland for 12 years, so it's kind of amusing watching everything happen all over again.

The funny thing - and I do have a good laugh about it - is that many of the younger people here who spout ignorant, parochial, racist drivel are the very ones who will probably have to get out from under mummy and daddy's feet and emigrate themselves.

It might open up their tiny little minds a bit.

Anonymous said...

why would i welcome people to my country when all they want to do it take. these people have been treated very well by the irish people and given so much, yet all they want to do it have a pointless march, which even their own people condemned as a bad idea. tell me what these social welfare takers are doing for my country and maybe then i will find it in my heart to change my views. regards mackey

The Gombeen Man said...

To be honest, I couldn't give a fiddler's what you think. I just hope you need to go abroad for work at some point yourself.
For my part, that's all behind me, and I'm quite comfortable and can afford to sit back and have a good laugh and wave the Celtic Brats off from the airport.

BTW, some of T's family supported the march and some did not

The fact is, most of our new population work and contribute to the economy. Certainly in Dublin 15, where I live.

Meanwhile, in the same locality, there are generations of feckless, lazy, Irish who've been sitting on their fat arses - even when we had near full employment - and sponging off welfare as a career path. "These people" are responsible for all of the social problems in D15, from my experience.

Too many Irish said...

@the analphabet 16 April 2010 19:04
I really wonder who is the worst social welfare waster. Those who tried to find a better lack in your little wet island or your knackers who live with unemployment benefits forever, drink, fight kill each other and get one kid after another, pollute the streets with food containers wasting millions of euro every year to clean the streets, selling drugs, stabbing people. Nice contribution eh? What the Irish did in UK and the US? stealing, murdering, begging for jobs, illegal gun crime... need more? See how hypocrites you have been.

Did you ever look yourself in the mirror (if you dare) and try to face your inferiority complexes? What do you think about the Irish who are going to emigrate? I will not do anything to save guys like you from the skinheads now where you will start to emigrate and leaching other countries but to reverse this false myth of "Irish hospitality" because you do not deserve a penny from any single tourist. Stay where you are in your prison island. It's a punishment to live there. You are not welcome. An eye for an eye.

You can beat up as many foreigners as you want, but you will never beat up the truth.

jimjay60 said...

Also, it should be noted that during the boom years(2006) 62% of Nigerian adults resident in the Irish state were unemployed.

Also remember, that since the work permit system was created, less than 500 Nigerians were issued with visas.

Furthermore, according to the Sunday Tribune, 99.9% of Nigerian asylum seekers were deemed bogus.

Repatriation is the answer.

Anna said...

My workmate Ron Never worked or paid tax in England but his friend Pat offered to do some dentistry work for him there- wouldn’t charge his mate a cent .
The NHS allows free dentistry for long term unemployed ,so Pat would list Ron as an unemployed NHS patient & charge Them for the expensive treatment. Then Pat would pocket the fee. Would the Irish like it if English/European people came over and claimed free dentistry that should only be claimed correctly by
) long term tax/ PRSI payers of the State
2) someone who - due to long term benefits and poverty - had No Means of their own to pay? How do 2 rich privately educated Dubliners justify swindling the NHS of funds- which it needs for its own patients? I paid 2000 pounds for dentistry in Newry, I work, so not eligible for free work. Don’t know if Ron did it- he thought it a great wheeze anyway.
An English Dentist was jailed for billing the NHS for imaginary Unemployed patients. His (Real) patients wrote to the judge to give ( formerly of) good character refs. The judge said- yes- But people Do Expect High standards of a professional man. They Do IN Britain & grown up nations. But Irish professionals are Expected to be scum bags. The English dentist got 6 yrs. If Pat is caught he’ll get the same.
Dubliner Elaine who stole 1000 Euro when we flat shared V briefly in Belfast in the ‘90s deserves a fine too. She was given the money to give to an estate agent,( as she was unemployed and I worked a lot of hours- in 2 low paid jobs) as I needed to move closer to my work.- the money vanished. She had an ever changing story the money was stolen / lost etc.
I had to move off quickly for work reasons and I never got it back off her- heard later she had swindled every one she could in 1 yr in Belfast, landlords friends etc. She later was thrown out of the flat we had shared due to not paying her share of the rent for months.
I lost the flat I’d given her the deposit+ rent to and had to save up for another place. Elaine wasn’t from a rough background either- she’d worked as a private secretary and her mother was horrified when she heard all this.
Not the only time someone from down here ripped me off: I have had to take 2 landlords( millionaires!) to Small claims court several times to recover deposits etc- I never did this any here else I lived: NI, England or Guernsey, and I am now involved in 2 more cases with the Tenancy board.
Yes there a plenty of decent people here, and yes you get dishonesty everywhere- But I Just Never saw as Much Dishonesty as I saw in this country. Long before immigrants came here- over 20 yrs ago- I kept reading stats that ROI had the highest rates of welfare fraud and tax evasion in Europe.
YES bad government is at fault- there is a Shocking amount of welfare/ tax fraud here-and no doubt people of all nationalities are involved due to the kind of of official carelessness and stupidity that doesn’t clamp down on haemorrhaging of public funds, or provide enough fraud personnel in Social welfare & Revenue.
But really there is also a shocking attitude as well ( among some) that is s perfectly OK to be dishonest and rip off a person who is often poorer than yourself.

Anna said...

I have no problems with immigrants here;
1) They are doing what we have always done- improve our lives by moving
2) Life is more interesting with their presence
3)Few nations will tolerate the nonsense and bad goverment that the Irish do- therefore I do look to immigrants to hopefully join in demands of all type for better goverment, services etc in every area

Anna said...

‘Also, it should be noted that during the boom years(2006) 62% of Nigerian adults resident in the Irish state were unemployed.*
* All the Africans I met were working- but this doesn’t mean some weren’t unemployed- I just wonder where this stat comes from.

‘Also remember, that since the work permit system was created, less than 500 Nigerians were issued with visas.’’
What source do these stats come from? If only 500 Nigerians have valid work visas , then are all the rest here illegally? I
Why is Anyone of any nationality in a country-- if they don’t have the legal documents? isn’t that a fault of an inefficient system with no enforcement officials ?

My friend Kate is in USA for 10 yrs - she can’t come home as she is there illegally. But that’s Kate’s own fault- when she went over the USA couldn’t even get enough Irish to fill the special visas- as our economy was booming! So Kate could have gone thru the proper channels - but she was impatient to go over, so did not apply for the visa etc.
So I am sure Kate won’t be surprised if she is some day removed.

Anonymous said...

Also remember, that since the work permit system was created, less than 500 Nigerians were issued with visas.’’
What source do these stats come from? If only 500 Nigerians have valid work visas , then are all the rest here illegally? I
Why is Anyone of any nationality in a country-- if they don’t have the legal documents? isn’t that a fault of an inefficient system with no enforcement officials ?

I dont know if these "facts" are correct, but i know that there is something called "remain to leave" think its to do with the pregnant nigerians arriving in ireland to give birth, the parents get social welfare but are not entitled to work?????? only in this gombean nation of Ireland.....mackey

Anonymous said...

Furthermore, according to the Sunday Tribune, 99.9% of Nigerian asylum seekers were deemed bogus.

Did the paper print this? 99.9% really? thats shocking, and they should be removed if true....mackey

Anonymous said...

I would rather live in a neighborhood with unemployed "scammers" Nigerians than Irish drug addicted knackers who could stab you for nothing when you walk down a street.

I've been everywhere in Europe, Amsterdam, Stockholm, Berlin (which its east side suffers by fascist gangs), Barcelona, London, Tirana (Albania, which supposed to be a high crime country), some cities in Romania. I have never felt so much unsafe than in Dublin. I haven't seen urine lakes anywhere as in Dublin city center. I've never seen anywhere teenagers ready to stab you in the city center because you just looked at them. I have never seen pigeons eating vomiting. Ireland is an utter disgrace. I bet if you open the dictionary in the word "hypocrite" you will find the picture of an Irish. Yes, Ireland is the example of hypocrisy and irony worldwide.

Anna the Irish did not tolerate this bad government, they just don't care. They are reluctant to do anything to change their society which is an utter disgrace. In Spain, Germany, Greece, France you see, protests happen very often because the people WANT a change and do everything possible to correct things in the political sphere, words unknown for the Irish who in their laziness support the easy solution "blame always others". They blame Africans but even in Africa the people despite the unnumbered difficulties do something to improve their lives while the Irish screw over the welfare system for drinking, buying and selling drugs, murdering and frightening people. Now I ca understand why a few Irish friends I got have left this country. It's time for you Anna and the rest well minded people to leave. No matter if you are Irish or not, you are wasting your time there. Small country, small minds.

The Gombeen Man said...

Just a general point: I have said that multiple identity posters won't be published. That is now in effect.

Another general point (and from such a source): any so called "figures" must be backed up with evidence - otherwise the gullible are too easily led astray.

On the subject of "unemployed" refugee-seekers, such people are not allowed to work by the state while being processed. Blame government, as Anna pointed out.

Whatever about all of that, I am sick and tired of small-minded Paddies, who were known as bog-wogs by the National Front and the BNP in the Britain of the 70s and 80s, slagging off people who have come to Ireland to better their lives.

In the meantime, of course, they say nothing about our indigenous underclass of scumbags who have lived on welfare all their lives at our expense, and pop out their veriminous offspring like there's no tomorrow to perpetuate the process. If you want to make cutbacks, target these people - not those who have shown sufficient enterprise to make the journey here to better their lives.

@ 10:39 Anon - Any chance of a name, mate? You've got it spot on, and I agree with you completely regarding the idea of decent, thinking people just upping sticks and living the rest of them to it. But that would be giving up, wouldn't it? No, we decent Paddies have a job to do here.

Anonymous said...

Heres the 99.9% figure published by the Sunday Tribune - Just 0.01% of Nigerians granted asylum in the past two years
Ken Foxe

NIGERIAN people arriving in Ireland have practically no chance of being granted asylum, according to figures obtained by the Sunday Tribune.

The figures, which also indicate that asylum applications from Chinese people are almost always refused, demolish claims by anti-immigrant groups that Ireland has an open-door immigration policy. Fewer than 20 Nigerian nationals have been recognised as refugees in the past two years, despite more than 1,500 applications, the figures show.

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2008/aug/10/exposed-the-myth-of-irelands-liberal-asylum-policy/

The 62% of Nigerian adults on Jobseekers Allowance and Jobseekers benefit can be found here - http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=LRM09&ti=Persons+on+the+Live+Register+%28Number%29+by+Month+and+Nationality&path=../Database/Eirestat/Live%20Register/&lang=1

Work permits issued by nationality can be found here(less than 500)- http://www.entemp.ie/labour/workpermits/statistics.htm

I doubt this comment will be published, but there we go.

Anonymous said...

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/graces-evil-killer-was-acting-out-sex-fantasy-14165956.html

Why isn't there the same anger over the murder and rape above? Never again? Only in a Marxist Utopia.

"If he is not convicted of MURDER and sent down for a decent length of time then there SHOULD be race riots. I know I'll be out." - Breadnoses
Was Breadnoses there? He saw what happened? When there were race riots in England innocent people were killed. A disabled white teenager Terry May from Croydon was stabbed and mutilated by a black gang in 1981. A policeman Keith Blakelock was beheaded in 1985 in Tottenham. But you only get the left going on about Stephen Lawrence and "state racism" you'd think minorities were angels.

I think Breadnoses has been listening to Ghost Town by the Specials too much. The left romantises black resistance but ignores white suffering. A white victim at the hands of a blackman is not PC.

Witness all the stabbings in London. Mostly black on black and occasionally black on white.
If you think our own Dublin "Skangers" are so bad they're saints near Somali gangbangers. There was an alleged gang rape recently in Leixlip involving African youths.

Uncontrolled mass immigration just makes social problems tens times worse.

Freemind

Anonymous said...

aren't we going off topic here ? but for the record Asylum applications have declined only because EU law regarding marriage to an Eu citizen is a softer option for someone looking to get in or remain in the country. The Influx of immigrants from all over continues properly done it would not be a problem. I wouldn't say it's an "open door" policy but if some of the nambys we hear had their way there would be.Most people coming here want a better life for themselves and their kids , nothing wrong with that in my opinion. what is more worrying is the gangs of Criminals coming here just to commit crime and contribute nothing- this is happening and you don't have to travel far to see it.
We have enough home grown scumbags thank you. The social welfare system here needs to be revamped to stop the scrounger's paradise that we live in at present . The Current Govt must go - but sadly the Left wing parties don't seem to have any ideas on how to deal with crime.

Anti-state said...

"Witness all the stabbings in London. Mostly black on black and occasionally black on white" for the same reason they killed Toyosi?

"Marxist Utopia", then live in your great capitalist world. Get back in your TV, do what the media tell you to do, and get fat fat fat...

The Gombeen Man said...

@ Freemind. "Witness all the stabbings in London. Mostly black on black and occasionally black on white." Are you deliberately excluding white on black/asian? There were numerous attacks on such people by fascists when I lived there. And, as I keep trying to get through, by fash on Irish people. For the record, I realise one race does not have a monopoly on racism.

@ Anti-state. The use labels such as "Marxist Utopia", "lefist" and the like are telling, indicating as they do an existing agenda brought to bear on this topic by some contributors.

I've even been called a "wooly liberal"... Don't think so.

BTW Could ALL posters PLEASE sign their posts, as the plethora of "Anons" is confusing to read through.

Anti-state said...

@Goombee
"wooly liberal".... eeeehhhh!!!!!! It is sad to see opinions from people who cannot distinguish the differences between left wing, liberalism, libertarianism, anarchism, socialism, communism, American republicanism, Irish republicanism etc etc... It is just appalling and outrageous.

Also for that "but sadly the Left wing parties don't seem to have any ideas on how to deal with crime". What left wing parties are in Ireland? Except the sin fein which is rubbish, the labors which is a neo-liberal nothing, and the only one is the socialist party which has not a single sit in the parliament and you obviously NEVER studied Marxism. So study it and then you'll find out what the left wing parties do for crime. You don't need to become fascist to eliminate crime. In conclusion, it was FF center right neoliberal trash that messed up the country at first place and not the left wings. Also Ireland has the most conservative parties among Europe (perhaps behind Austria and East Europe).

Back to Gombee again
Why you are not turning off the "Anonymous" option. It's getting very hard to familiarize yourself with the flow of the comments.

Second: We are getting out of topic. In my opinion, enough with the left, right thing. This is a post for Toyosi and not a place to resolve political differences.

Jim said...

Can we continue this discussion without using the terms pinko/leftie/bleeding heart liberal/nazi/racist/xenophobe etc?

The Gombeen Man said...

Anti-state said. "We are getting out of topic. In my opinion, enough with the left, right thing. This is a post for Toyosi and not a place to resolve political differences."

Agreed.

BTW, I leave the anonymous option open as I want to make it easy for people to comment on the blog. I know logging in and all that malarkey puts me off commenting on some blogs, so I try to keep it as handy as possible for people. All they have to do is sign, so it shouldn't be too much to ask. The best thing would be for people to use the "name/url" option that you and some other posters use, of course.

Klang said...

Anti state - I never put my name up sorry for the confusion, I made the comment about the" left wing parties ", I was talking in terms of who to vote for when the current bunch of wankers are ousted. you have described Labour Sf etc correctly correctly.socialist party and their pals would hope to gather a few seats when the next election happens unfortunately for the ordinary voter Looking for an alternative, they are all question and no answer.worse still is their tendancy to make political capital out of anything (such as the supposedly racist killing of a schoolboy )

Anti-state said...

Klang What I point out is that you don't need to adopt extreme right ideas because all the left wing parties in Ireland suck. Whatever you mention I still believe that Toyosis killing was a racist one but it doesn't matter anymore. Nothing can bring him back. The whole concept of left/right is nonsense in this topic. A 15 years old child died, only 15 years old. Racist or, not no matter nationality or color, why people have to die like that?

gregoro said...

God go punish those mother4kas wey kill our brother and those wey no jail them cos of dem 4ken racism. Amen

Anonymous said...

This was not a racial attack. Can people(africans) stop claiming it was?

Anonymous said...

""Marxist Utopia", then live in your great capitalist world. Get back in your TV, do what the media tell you to do, and get fat fat fat..." -Anti-state.

I dislike capitalism as much as marxism and so-called anarchism. On the left the anarchist Antifa want no borders, the Trotskyites (SWP and Socialist Party) believe all immigration control is racist while on the neo-liberal right (FF and FG) support mass immigration while the economy is booming. The left wing agenda like gay marriage and positive discrimination is becoming more mainstream. There isn't much of difference between "left" and "right". David Cameron is more of a "socialist" than Tony Blair. At least the "far right" balance out the "looney left" in my opinion.

"There were numerous attacks on such people by fascists when I lived there. And, as I keep trying to get through, by fash on Irish people. For the record, I realise one race does not have a monopoly on racism."- Gombeen Nation

Yes but in those days white English far outnumbered minorities. Peckham, London now looks like Lagos, Nigeria and Sparkhill, Birmingham looks like Islamobad, Pakistan. Whitey is either intermarrying with the black population, moving out or trying not to stand out too much.

"Are you deliberately excluding white on black/asian?" - Gombeen Nation
Not as common as it used to be but the left ignore black on white and Asian on white. Ever heard of Kriss Donald from Glasgow. Young Kriss died a horrific death at the hands of a Pakistani gang and only was 15 like the misfortunate Toyosi. An also interestingly the left also ignore black on Asian and Asian on black and of course there's sectarianism between Indian Hindus, Punjabi Sikhs and Pakistani Muslims. The Sikhs hate Muslims so much that one recently became the first non-white member of the BNP.
http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/uk/england/two-arrests-over-shooting-of-teenage-girl-in-london-takeaway-$1372096.htm
See the news happened above about an innocent black victim of black perpertrators. Also recently google Godwin Lawson and Sofyen Gailan. Not a BNP man in sight. BNP supporters today are more likely to be involved in white on white "chav" crime in Essex than attacking minorities and looking back in nostalgia to the days when the East End was Cockney and not Bengali. Look up Neathergate to see what the New Labour elite think of the English white working class. The far left aren't much different. I see a similar comtempt here for the Irish working class.

Freemind

The Gombeen Man said...

@ Anonymous/Jim/JimJay60. One consistent theme I have noted since opening comments on this post is the persistent attempt of one or two posters, using many different identities, to demonise the Nigerian community in Ireland.

It should be pointed out that any figures or links you have provided are selective, insofar as practically any nationality could be singled out. You choose to target Nigerians only. However, even your own figures indicate that such demonisation is mischeivous at best, and inflamatory at worst, given the highly charged nature of this situation.

There are several erroneous misconceptions in the heads of less tolerant/xenophobic Irish people, some of them contradictory:
On the one hand "Nigerians" are lazy and on the dole. Yet on the other hand they seem to be "taking" all the taxi jobs in Dublin (see your Sunday Tribune link). The other is they are flooding the country through asylum claims, yet 99.9% are refused. Far from being an increasing flood, the number of Nigerians (seeing as they are your particular fixation) getting PPSN numbers has been decreasing steadily. Nigeria 5,464 in 2003; 3,813 in 2003; 1,966 in 2004; 2,142 in 2005; 1,603 in 2006; 1,608 in 2007 and 1,554 in 2008.

Likewise, your inference that those who view the unlawful killing of 15 year-old-Toyosi as a racist attack are "Africans" is wrong and disingenous. I am not African, the reporters from the Sunday Tribune, The Sunday Times and the Sunday Independent were not African. I think this statement alone speaks volumes.

There have been many comments on this particular post, but way up near the start somebody brought to our attention the fact that Paul Barry had previously been charged with assault and incitement to hatred in a racist attack on Pearse Street during which a black Englishman was stabbed and was lucky not to lose his life. Barry's accomplice got 7-and-a-half years for the racist attack.

Now, give a dog a bad name and all that, but considering that Barry is reported to have used the "nigger" word several times prior to stabbing a fifteen-year-old black kid (whose ambition was to play football for Ireland) and given his previous form, it is not surprising that people have drawn this conclusion (and not just African ones, as you seem to believe).

Lastly, it should be remembered that the "Nigerians" born in Ireland before McDowells referendum are Irish. Others have siblings who share the same status, even if they do not. Many have been living here for years and were even actively prevented from working in the past due to Irish law.

These people, or a great many of them, will become naturalised Irish. They are not going anywhere. Given that fact, the best thing is for us all to get on, and for the authorities to avoid the exclusion and ghettoisation that has happened elsewhere.

We have a unique opportunity to ensure this does not happen, but given the incompetence of our political class it will probably be left to us on the ground. As an example: there are five Educate Together primary schools south of the Liffey in Lucan, but the Department of Education has been actively obstructing them at secondary level for some reason. There are no such secondary facilties here in Dublin 15, either.

Given that we are ruled by idiots, it is up to us to realise that we are all in this together. All of us.

I speak as a Dublin 15 resident.

Anti-state said...

@Freemind
As a London resident I can confirm that crime in Pecham and Brixton is not higher than the white low wages areas of London. The black people here who prone to crime have no other choice. This is the consequence of the huge gap between rich and poor. It's survival and not ignorance. When I was studying in the university the number of colored students was amazing. See, they do everything possible to escape from poverty and misery. On the other hand, the what so called "chavs" can kill you just for nothing, just for fun because they have nothing better to do in their lives and you know this.

As a London resident I can confirm also that crime in London is not as bad as the Media describe it, of course not worse than Dublin. It is well understandable that the media promote this "safety hysteria" in order to make the obsessed by law and security. Undoubtedly most of the times the colored people will have to be used as a scapegoat. No I am not black or anything like that. I am very white with blond hair and honey eyes married to an English girl, but it doesn't matter as long as you are able to discover more than the world of media, as long as you are able to see further than your mobile, your Saturday night dressing...

As you said, you dislike capitalism but you are a "far right" sympathizer, well let me tell you that the far right is a capitalist product. As far trotskism and anarchism, go get some books, study them and if you don't like them ok.

As I said, again, this sort of conversation will not bring back Toyosi. It's pity that people die that way, no matter if it was racist attack or not. That scumbag has left a family devastated. Just thing about them now and not about politics and colors. How is it possible such a developed world, where the basic education is available for everyone, that people come to completely lack of any capacity of thinking logically? …No illusions, no dreams, no goals... Even an ‘underprivileged’ brain has received enough input, enough education to be able to understand the basic rules of social communication

Anonymous said...

It seems that some of Barry's accomplices from 2001 are pictured here, namely James Bradshaw, John Byrne and Philip Uzell!

http://www.liffeyspearse.ie/teams.asp?team=Ssun

AC

Anonymous said...

I am saddened when I read this. I am of Irish descent but am an American. I have been to Ireland twice, the last time being in 1994. I saw one black the entire time of my stay in Ireland. My comments are not a reflection on color but on Christian culture. Ireland was the most safest and peaceful place I could imagine in 1994. Never did I feel threatened. It reminded me of America in the 1950's. Has the whole world gone CRAZY, including IRELAND??

Do you want Ireland to become like America? What is wrong with you people. Don't you realize that the social experiment of mixing whites and blacks, christians and muslims is not working? What world are you living in? I feel sorry for you and I feel saddened. Don't you know if you touch a hot stove you will be burned? Don't you have any common sense at all? Why do you want to ruin a perfectly good social arrangement that has worked fairly well for hundreds of years--white christians living in peace with each other (never minding what the British have done to cause troubles between us)?? May God help us all. I believe the Lord is coming soon and this is another sign.

The Gombeen Man said...

Ah, spoken in the true spirit of Christian love and tolerance.

Amen.

Anonymous said...

If that's how most of you feel, then I feel truly sorry for you. You cannot tolerate wicked men and survive. See what "tolerance" has done to America? We live in a land filled with murderers. You still have a chance, but alas, you will not wake up in time.

IrishAmerican

Anonymous said...

RIP TOY WE MISS YU SO MUCH XX
DORISS

Anonymous said...

OMG..IM SPEEEEEEEEEECHLESS,NONE OF THESE COMMENTS OR ARGUMENTS CAN BRING YOU BACK,ALL I CAN DO IS CRY AND PRAY TO GOD TO TAKE CARE OF YOU TOY, I DIDNT KNOW U PERSONALLY WELL BUT YOUR DEATH AS STRICKEN AND AFFECTED MY LIFE . :'( .. TOY WE MISS U UR ALWAYS IN OUR LIFES 24/7 ... GOD BE WITH YOU,CYNTHIA AJA XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ..

Anonymous said...

sometimes we confuse racism and jealousy/envy together,ignorance and illiteracy is a dangerous thing,an ignorant man is a danger to himself and society.

Anonymous said...

toy was in my class our class is so different now i miss toy so much alot of sadnes is our school over this big inccident our tutur was helping use to pass the saddnes i guess it will never be the same tomorow 12/07/2010 is toy birthaday happy birthday mate miss you rip

Anonymous said...

Anti-state and Gombeen Man are the oh so superior, the typical arrogant liberals. Communism was the the most wonderful thing ever, the more immigrants the better and there's Nazis, Fascists and racists under the bed and they have to be rooted out. The native Irish are only racist not immigrants and they'd be better off without without that backward suspicious Catholicism, nothing wrong with Islam though.

The American Christian was just speaking his mind, he's seen what's happened in America. Look at Detroit. No need for the smart comment Gombeen. There are downsides to the a multi-ethnic society. Is it a good idea to radically alter the ethnic make-up of a country like Ireland and the rest of Europe are doing. And saying violent white chavs are ignorant and blacks are violent because they have to survive sounds like racism to me.

As for Trotsky real name Lev Davidovich Bronstein he was the son of a rich Jewish farmer not a "worker" and would have been as bad as Stalin if he got power. He was violent revolutionary terrorist who had nothing in common with the Russian working class people. At least Pearse and Connolly kept their real names and were representative of their people.

Sorry this is not meant to be disrespectful to Toyosi but other than those who were there no can be certain as to what happened exactly.

The Gombeen Man said...

Free Mind. I am sick of hearing about Irish and "Irish Americans" in the good ole US of A who (or whose parents or whatever) emigrated to make better lives, and who spout racist bile against other people who did exactly the same. And all their Christian bollocks, the principles of which they regularly violate every day of their miserable lives. I'm not running around saying "love they neighbour", but I'm not spouting racist bile against my neighbour either. Irish American deserves a mouthful in my view.

I live in Blanchardstown which, in case you don't know, is very much a working class area. There is a large population of migrants in my area, and I want them integrated and accepted into Irish society. And I want Irish people to accept them and not place barriers in their way. I don't want out new population ghettoised. That is the way to avoid the mistakes of the past that have been made in other countries.

Where did I say "there is nothing wrong with Islam"? If you search the blog on the subject you will see I say quite the contrary.

I have no time for religion, full stop.

Anonymous said...

Ahh Toyosi Rest In Peace Yhuur Missed By Loads :(
I Dont Understand Why People Are So Racist :(
I Love Yhuu .xxxxx
Bridjette xxxxx

Anonymous said...

Paul Barry died this morning in St James hospital, he was due to stand trial for murder today.
A form of justice has been served.
I saw Toyosi outside my home about 5 minutes before he was brutally murdered.

RIP Toyosi

A Tyrrelstown resident.

Hu Bris said...

I followed this case in the media quite closely.

I'm shocked to discover that despite all the talk that this was a racist killing, no one until today ever mentioned that the group of black youths was accused of stealing a
mobile phone from one of the guys that attacked them.

To me this is quite shocking because almost immediately that news of this boys death became known certain sections of Irish society immediately started calling it a race-hate crime.

At the time I found that very suspicious since I could see no details in the story that would allow one to arrive at that conclusion, other than the victim was black and the perpetrator white.

Despite reading many reports on this, today, in a report of the trial, was the very first time that I heard anything about the group this boy was associated with being accused of stealing a mobile phone from one of the 2 guys who later attacked them.

How could that possibly be?

How could Irish media write so much on the "racial" aspect of this and yet neglect to mention the very salient fact that one of the 2 attackers thought that the group had robbed a mobile phone from him?

The left in Ireland jumped all over this incident as an example of pure racism without ever stopping to consider that there may have been actual reasons other than racism that contributed to this attack in the first place.

Certainly had it been known that the group was accused of stealing one of the guys mobile phone, it would have been a damn sight harder for people to jump on the Racism bandwagon.

Will the owner of this blog now be withdrawing his claim of racism now that the media ha finally (2 years later) informed us of vital aspects concerning this incident? Or will you just try and pretend it never happened?

The Gombeen Man said...

My information was taken from media reports, like the Tribune one cited above. I make that clear, before going on to raise the issue of racism in Ireland in general, and the potential role of integrated education in aiding integration and preventing ghettoisation. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

You are correct - there are is no mention of stolen, or allegedly stolen, mobile phones in the press reports.

There is, however, a world of difference between a stolen mobile and a fatal stabbing.

Then there is Paul Barry's previous involvement in a group who attacked an Englishman, who was with a black woman, on Pearse Street some years back, which was preceded by racist taunts.

While the court today acquitted Michael Barry, it expressly does not rule out a racial element in his brother's knife attack - and references to "racial undertones" prior to the attack are mentioned.



Anonymous said...

I doubt you will be mentioning Nicola Furlong or Christina Edkins in this blog. Christina Edkins was stabbed to death on a school bus in multi-ethnic Birmingham.

The Gombeen Man said...

Anon (it would be nice if you gave us a name, even a makey-up one like mine).

For the record, I do not believe that racism is exclusive to white people. It is not. People of all colours, classes, nationalities and creeds can be racist/sectarian/prejudiced/bigoted.

Do you contend that the cases you mention are both racist crimes? What is your evidence?

punk,ska,and oi in irish towns 1976-1989 said...

does anyone know if the gang of 4 racist blacks from wherever living on the NCR who nearly killed 2 people in a series of racially motivated anti-irish attacks in temple bar over a year ago were dealt with and sentanced???or are they just a stat as well as the other foreigners that keep appearing in crime stories in our dailies???

punk,ska,and oi in irish towns 1976-1989 said...

So I take it blacks,hispanic South Americans,orientals,arabs,and eastern euopean slavs and rumanians do not mug,steal,rape,assault or murder Irish people then.The newspaper journalists should be flogged therefore.All those daily articles,the statistics on rape,fraud,assaults on old folk,and eastern european murders this year.If I was a foreigner here my motto would be "PUT ME UP HERE>>>>>>>AND THEY ARE!!!!!

The Gombeen Man said...

I never said they didn't. You only have to look at South Africa and the murders of white farmers, numbering something like 3,000.

Racism, sectarianism and bigotry exists among all kinds of people. It should be stamped out, and racist murderers should be banged up, no matter what their skin colour.